Francis on the “Vetus Ordo”, Traditional Roman Rite. Wherein Fr. Z analyzes… and then rants.

WDTPRS ^ | 9/20/2013 | Fr John Zuhlsdorf

[markomalley]

In the Big Interview, Francis said in response to a question about the Second Vatican Council something about the Vetus Ordo, the older Mass, the Extraordinary Form.

I’ll cut to the chase for those of you who only read the title of the post or the first paragraph and then run to the combox:

This is Francis’ strongest affirmation – to date – of Summorum Pontificum.  It is an affirmation.

What did Francis say about the Vetus Ordo? My emphases:

“What did the Second Vatican Council accomplish?” I ask.

“Vatican II was a re-reading of the Gospel in light of contemporary culture,” says the pope. “Vatican II produced a renewal movement that simply comes from the same Gospel. Its fruits are enormous. Just recall the liturgy. The work of liturgical reform has been a service to the people as a re-reading of the Gospel from a concrete historical situation. Yes, there are hermeneutics of continuity and discontinuity, but one thing is clear: the dynamic of reading the Gospel, actualizing its message for today—which was typical of Vatican II—is absolutely irreversible. Then there are particular issues, like the liturgy according to the Vetus Ordo. I think the decision of Pope Benedict [his decision of July 7, 2007, to allow a wider use of the Tridentine Mass] was prudent [Italian: "prudenziale" hmmm ] and motivated by the desire to help people who have this sensitivity. What is worrying, though, is the risk of the ideologization of the Vetus Ordo, its exploitation.”

Let’s drill.

I’ll write more about “prudenziale” elsewhere.

Note the phrase “Its fruits are enormous. Just recall the liturgy.”

First, Benedict XVI made a similar point in his last days as Pope in his talk to the clergy of Rome.  HERE  So, Francis echoes Benedict.  Reading Francis through Benedict.  AGAIN. Other people are starting to figure this out too, by the way.

Of course, we can debate the fruits, can’t we.  They are not – at least to me – always and everywhere immediately apparent.

Next, the phrase, “I think the decision of Pope Benedict was prudent.”

This is Francis’ strongest affirmation – to date – of Summorum Pontificum.  It is an affirmation.

Next, “the risk of the ideologization of the Vetus Ordo, its exploitation.”

What could this mean?

I have no idea what this means.

It could mean something like: “The Vetus Ordo is the only valid Mass.”  But if that is the case, who are those people?  Even SSPXers, who don’t like the Novus Ordo, will admit that it is valid.  So, the number of people who would say that are minimal.  Big deal.  And he knows that.

It could mean that the use of the Vetus Ordo might divide communities.  Could he have in mind Friars of the Immaculate?  Probably not.  But if he mean “division” then why didn’t he say “division”?

“Exploitation” sounds like a political category, doesn’t it?  Is there somewhere in the world where older form of Mass is linked to a political party?  Political action?  If it were, you would think it would be in S. America and probably France.  Would the group Tradition, Family, Property be seen to be “political” by Francis?  Some other group?

Let’s also consider those with whom Bergoglio might tie the older form of Mass.  He was from Buenos Aires.  A few miles south of Buenos Aires is the SSPX seminary where former SSPX Bishop and holocaust denier Richard Williamson was rector from 2003 to 2009 when the government of Argentina expelled him.  If when Francis thinks about those who embrace the older Mass the image of Williamson pops into his head, then … well….

But, these groups would be really small, right.  Who is “exploiting” the Vetus Ordo?  Who? Why would Francis spend time worrying about them?

I submit that he doesn’t worry about them and that he is not going to suspend the provisions of Summorum Pontificum, with which agrees.  Furthermore, it may be that this statement is so hard to parse because Francis himself doesn’t have a clear notion of issue.  He probably hasn’t given it much thought.

I conclude that, since there is not any real risk of ideologization or exploitation – whatever that means – of the older Mass – there’s no real problem here.

What Francis said is in harmony with what Benedict and did.

Finally, no matter what…

Those of you who are interested in obtaining and keeping the older form of the Mass and sacraments had better pay close attention to what Francis is saying.

He is asking for a joyful, compassionate face on the Church for the world.  That means YOU, friends.

We have the provisions of Summorum Pontificum, which is a huge advantage.

We have the message and style of Pope Francis to take as a cue, which is a huge advantage.

I am reminded of the stern words of the Franciscan friar after Romeo kills Tybalt (R&J III,iii):

FRIAR LAURENCE
Hold thy desperate hand:
Art thou a man? thy form cries out thou art:
Thy tears are womanish; thy wild acts denote
The unreasonable fury of a beast:
Unseemly woman in a seeming man!
Or ill-beseeming beast in seeming both!
Thou hast amazed me: by my holy order,
I thought thy disposition better temper’d.
Hast thou slain Tybalt? wilt thou slay thyself?
And slay thy lady too that lives in thee,
By doing damned hate upon thyself?
Why rail’st thou on thy birth, the heaven, and earth?
Since birth, and heaven, and earth, all three do meet
In thee at once; which thou at once wouldst lose.
Fie, fie, thou shamest thy shape, thy love, thy wit;
Which, like a usurer, abound’st in all,
And usest none in that true use indeed
Which should bedeck thy shape, thy love, thy wit:
Thy noble shape is but a form of wax,
Digressing from the valour of a man;
Thy dear love sworn but hollow perjury,
Killing that love which thou hast vow’d to cherish;
Thy wit, that ornament to shape and love,
Misshapen in the conduct of them both,
Like powder in a skitless soldier’s flask,
Is set afire by thine own ignorance,
And thou dismember’d with thine own defence.
What, rouse thee, man! thy Juliet is alive,
For whose dear sake thou wast but lately dead;
There art thou happy: Tybalt would kill thee,
But thou slew’st Tybalt; there are thou happy too:
The law that threaten’d death becomes thy friend
And turns it to exile; there art thou happy:
A pack of blessings lights up upon thy back;
Happiness courts thee in her best array;
But, like a misbehaved and sullen wench,
Thou pout’st upon thy fortune and thy love:
Take heed, take heed, for such die miserable.
Go, get thee to thy love, as was decreed,
Ascend her chamber, hence and comfort her:
But look thou stay not till the watch be set,
For then thou canst not pass to Mantua;
Where thou shalt live, till we can find a time
To blaze your marriage, reconcile your friends,
Beg pardon of the prince, and call thee back
With twenty hundred thousand times more joy
Than thou went’st forth in lamentation.

Maybe we can learn some lessons from that sad famous story about how not to act in these times of seeming civil strife in our fair Church, where we lay our scene.

[count-your-change]

“Its fruits are enormous. Just recall the liturgy. The work of liturgical reform has been a service to the people as a re-reading of the Gospel from a concrete historical situation. Yes, there are hermeneutics of continuity and discontinuity, but one thing is clear: the dynamic of reading the Gospel, actualizing its message for today—which was typical of Vatican II—is absolutely irreversible”

This is the language of someone who really wants to sound profound and intellectual but really isn’t. It’s mental mush, warmed over semantics with a dash buzz words.

[stonehouse01]

“...Vatican II produced a renewal movement...”

The so called renewal movement did not renew. The fruits in my diocese (Albany) were and are rotten.

[stonehouse01]

.....mental mush...”

“heremenuetics of continuinnty and discontiunty..”

the Gospel does not mince words

Someone is writing for him... perhaps

Read Father Malachy Martin and weep

[stonehouse01]

To All,

Read AA 1025 Memoirs

The Church is in serious danger...

[stonehouse01]

Bad fruit, not good.

[Salvation]

**He is asking for a joyful, compassionate face on the Church for the world. That means YOU, friends.**