Posted on 10/04/2013 10:43:31 AM PDT by ShadowAce
Faith
Alone, Faith is void
Works
Without faith, works are useless
Grace
Without grace, both faith and works are meaningless
God is a trinity—Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Man is also a trinity—Soul, Body, and Spirit
Our spirit is our life force. It is the part of us that was born again when we put our faith in Jesus. The default sin nature was taken out and we were give a new spirit that is identical to Jesus.
Romans 6:6-7
For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
1 John 4:17
This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.
The soul can be described as your personality, your thoughts, your attitudes and what makes you unique. Perhaps this is why we use words like spirit and soul interchangeably because we cannot see either one, yet we understand that we possess something that makes up who we are as a person.
The body is the container for the spirit and the soul. It is the physical structure of a human. It is our flesh and blood. It is who we are when people look at us. This is the third part to mankind, without any one of these things, we cannot sustain life.
Salvation is trinitarian as well—grace, faith, and works.
Ephesians 2:1-10
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Romans 5:6-11
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Hmm. Grace in action—Christ died for the ungodly. God demonstrates his love for us. God provided much more than Grace—He provided the works to go with that grace.
Hebrew 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
“...those who earnestly seek him.” That sounds suspiciously like action—or works, perhaps?--on our part. Keep in mind the order of the phrase here—we must seek Him in order to get the reward. We do not get the reward before we seek Him, but rather afterwards.
James 1:22-25
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
Great passage for understanding the intertwining of faith and works. Faith is void unless accompanied by our works. Faith means nothing unless to exhibit that faith in your works. Merely stating one's faith—without exhibiting it for the world to see—means nothing.
James 2:14-24
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
James continues here that faith without deeds, or works, is dead—just like the body without the spirit. A person is considered righteous not by faith alone, but by the combination of faith and works. Show me a person without works—who considers himself saved—and I'll show you a person who is truly dead and doesn't realize it.
One must demonstrate one's faith to himself, to the world, and to God Himself. Faith is made complete only by our works.
Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’I see this passage misused quite often. They frequently leave out the second clause. One must perform the will of the Father to enter the Kingdom of Heaven—not merely proclaim it.
Matthew 25:31-46
When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
"I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink” Actions here speak louder than words.
Titus 2:11-14
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
God's grace has appeared to all men. We must act on that grace through the faith that He gave us in order to attain our salvation. That grace trains us to act properly. It's not merely a give-and-forget event.
1 Timothy 2:1-4
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
God wants all people to be saved. He does not Will it—in the sense of a decree, but he desires that we all allow His grace to grow our faith and growth in Him that we may do Good Works for Him and His kingdom. Doing so will allow us to be credited with righteousness in the same manner as Abraham.
Faith alone is sufficient for God to cover you with His grace.
We are not saved by works. But true faith, given time, will eventually produce works.
Mental assent that Jesus is the Son of God is not the same as faith that trusts Jesus for forgiveness of sins. And represents the case that James was pointing out that “even the demons believe”.
Deathbed conversions are saved and have no works.
I'm obviously not trying to cover outlier cases like deathbed conversions. However, this is salvation as Scripture defines it.
Works can be evidence of faith.
Works can exist without faith, because Jesus rejected many who pointed to their works and called him Lord, but Jesus said he "never knew them". Indicating the relationship is key.
And lack of works is not proof that faith doesn't exist. Lack of works will not condemn you. But if lack of works stems from lack of faith, then lack of faith will condemn you.
Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Works can be evidence of faith.
Works can exist without faith, because Jesus rejected many who pointed to their works and called him Lord, but Jesus said he "never knew them". Indicating the relationship is key.
And lack of works is not proof that faith doesn't exist. Lack of works will not condemn you. But if lack of works stems from lack of faith, then lack of faith will condemn you.
Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Again--not taking into account outliers like deathbeds, etc.
Faith without works is dead. Works without faith are useless. Grace enables both to be effective.
James points to his works that they are evidence of faith. Basically James has some people in his church, saying "I believe, I believe", but there are no works, there's no evidence of the fruit of the spirit. And James is questioning whether they really have a trusting faith or just mere mental assent.
Because true faith should result in works. It should result in the fruit of the spirit manifesting in your life. It should result in the virtues of Godly wisdom manifesting in your life. But those things take time and works often take preparation.
It is not faith + grace + works.
"Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
If it 's works then it's partly of yourselves. But scripture says it's not.
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Rom 3:24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Rom 3:25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,fn through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— Rom 3:26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Rom 3:27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
We all have Grace. Our faith determines what we do. Those works demonstrate the faith we have. Do we act like Jesus did? Or are we more concerned with ourselves? Our actions demonstrate our faith. Our actions reinforce our faith.
Without actions, our faith fails, and we produce no fruit. As our faith fails, our salvation fails.
The writer is correct in that salvation is tripartite (I have a slightly different take on that).
But salvation IS, like you say, by faith alone. Here’s how:
Faith itself has 3 parts, without any one of which it is incomplete, like an electrical circuit that isn’t connected, like a forward pass that is not caught inbounds, or like a foul ball that is hit, but not inside the lines.
The 3 parts of faith are:
Belief — to a rational mind, the Gospel becomes reasonable;
Trust — with the whole soul, a person gives his destiny over to the claims and promises of the Gospel;
Obedience — the person takes action to embrace (v.) the Gospel, receiving (v.), confessing (v.), following (v.), presenting (v.) himself wholly to the Lord as a living sacrifice and entering (v.) into God’s rest. That’s a lot of verbs; those are action words; and that is “works” of a sort.
So, there it is. There is no conflict between faith and works in the matter of salvation; that is because faith has that all-important works (obedience) component.
Now when I say “I believe”,
I have got it in my head;
And I know for a fact
That You rose from the dead;
You came into my life
Just like the Word said,
I do believe...
And when I say that “I trust”,
I have got it in my heart;
I can sing with conviction
“How Great Thou Art”;
You’re the Shield of my faith,
You quench every fiery dart;
I trust in You...
And when I say “I’ll obey”,
It is in my hands and feet;
I will do what You say;
I’ll get out of my seat;
You promised to be with me
Until my work’s complete,
I will obey...
So, I believe in my head,
And I trust,down in my heart;
That is where my faith begins;
But it’s only the start;
Hands and feet get in the action;
That’s the other part;
Faith comes alive!
That’s a little poem/song I wrote and it’s helped a lot of people to remember the components of faith, and to continually resolve the “faith vs works” conundrum.
Hope it helps here, too.
Exactly right. Thank you for putting it into better words than I could.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Paul struggled with obedience. Yet was absolutely sure of his salvation. Even saying that nothing in life nor death nor things to come could separate him from the love of God. His faith was in God not in his own ability to stay obedient.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 8: 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
There's also the Carnal Christian who's works are destroyed, yet he is still saved.
1Cr 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
By no means am I saying we shouldn't be obedient. We should, but our salvation does not hang in the balance. The Lord has ways of dealing with disobedient Christians.
Hbr 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Fear of not being able to be obedient keeps a lot of people from coming to Christ. It shouldn't. God can help you be obedient if you put your trust in him.
Sounds like Catholicism.
Me and Paul both!
I am with you, DannyTN.
Are you saying Catholicism gets nothing correct?
Pretty much.
See post 11.
“We do not get the reward before we seek Him, but rather afterwards.”
Your post is all very pretty, but it cannot be true, because:
“Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.”
(Joh 15:16)
This is the true order of salvation. “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you,” so it follows then that we who have faith in Christ, do so because He first chose us. Thus the “reward” was certain from the moment He chose us before the foundation of the world, not as a reward for debt, but according to His own good purpose in us before the world began. “And ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit.” The purpose of election is to produce good works, which He has established for us also before the world began, that we should do them. “And that your fruit should remain.” Proof that our good works are not from ourselves, for our righteousness is as filthy rags, and fit only to be burned, so that whatever does remain must then have been worked in us by God. Therefore we say that salvation is from God, who works all in all, and is not given by man to himself.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.