Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Ordain Women Group Turned Away At Conference [Mormon church turns women away from meeting]
MidUtahRadio.com ^ | Oct. 7, 2013 | Kathy Farnsworth

Posted on 10/08/2013 6:04:00 AM PDT by Colofornian

(Salt Lake City, UT) — A group of activist women seeking access to the Priesthood Session at the 183rd Semiannual General Conference were turned away. The 200 women are part of a group called Ordain Women, which is lobbying the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to allow for the ordination of women. A BYU graduated founded the group last year after returning from a mission to Barcelona.


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: keepowt; lds; ldschurch; mormonism; women
From the article: A group of activist women seeking access to the Priesthood Session at the 183rd Semiannual General Conference were turned away. The 200 women are part of a group called Ordain Women, which is lobbying the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to allow for the ordination of women. A BYU graduated founded the group last year after returning from a mission to Barcelona.

Seems to be a word missing from that last sentence (I didn't edit it at all)

Apparently, tho, the group was founded by a returned Mormon missionary who feels if women can serve as Mormon missionaries -- and represent the church ...

1 posted on 10/08/2013 6:04:01 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: All

...then why can’t they be acknowledged something that the Mormon church accords 12-year-old boys (Aaronic priesthood)???


2 posted on 10/08/2013 6:06:27 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

Because Mormonism was created by man.

And Man said let there be light...
and behold, someone switched on the light.


3 posted on 10/08/2013 6:16:23 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Pimping sexism in today's THREE MINUTES' HATE, are we ?
4 posted on 10/08/2013 6:51:48 AM PDT by jimt (Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

I don’t think any Christian org should ordain women or children


5 posted on 10/08/2013 7:09:36 AM PDT by GeronL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

I just laugh at these posts now...but an fyi, they are,
‘accorded” something, it is called the Relief society. “The Relief Society (RS) is a philanthropic and educational women’s organization and an official auxiliary of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). It was founded in 1842 in Nauvoo, Illinois, USA and has approximately 6 million members in over 170 countries and territories. The Relief Society is often referred to by the church and others as “one of the oldest and largest women’s organizations in the world. The motto of the Relief Society, taken from 1 Corinthians 13:8, is “Charity never faileth”. The official purpose of Relief Society is to “prepare women for the blessings of eternal life by helping them increase their faith and personal righteousness, strengthen families and homes, and help those in need. Relief Society accomplishes these purposes through Sunday gospel instruction, other Relief Society meetings, visiting teaching, and welfare and compassionate service.” I love being a member of the Relief Society!


6 posted on 10/08/2013 7:21:40 AM PDT by republicanbred (...and when I die I'll be republican dead.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

Colofornian ....

I thought you liked the Bible???

Show me in the Bible where God gave his priesthood to women?

Are you anti-Bible as well as anti-Mormon?

Isn’t Anti-Bible actually Anti-Christian?


7 posted on 10/08/2013 7:25:23 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Yet another screaming liberal attacking Christians.

How unique. How novel. How original. How brave.

Now, predictably claim the moral high ground.

8 posted on 10/08/2013 7:37:55 AM PDT by laotzu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GeronL
I don’t think any Christian org should ordain women or children

Mormons DON'T ordain even their bishops...they "pride" themselves on being "lay people"...their male-only priesthood are largely a-professional...

9 posted on 10/08/2013 10:15:12 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: teppe; republicanbred; All
Show me in the Bible where God gave his priesthood to women?

Be glad to...1 Peter 2:4-9...or do you portend the following applies ONLY to males?

4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”
8 and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.”[d]
They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
9 But you are a chosen PEOPLE, a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, a HOLY NATION, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a PEOPLE, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

I didn't know, Teppe, that you had scissored 1 Peter 2 out of your KJV Bible...and that you claim ONLY males were God's PEOPLE...only males were God's PRIESTHOOD...only males were God's Holy NATION.

Btw...see also Revelation 1:6...for there also, if you claim ONLY males to be priests to be the "us" in that passage...then males only reside in the "kingdom" referenced there...

10 posted on 10/08/2013 10:23:11 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: laotzu

Except that this group was started by a returned Mormon missionary...are you claiming that the Mormon missionaries are full of “liberals?” ???


11 posted on 10/08/2013 10:26:42 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

whats next Colofornian?

articles against mormonism because they wont have gay bishops?

Your not biblical in your condemning of Mormonism. What are you? A faithless ex-Mormon? An atheist? A Christian?

I always enjoy your articles, but this one?
Please, inquiring minds would like to know.
What is your affiliation, please?


12 posted on 10/08/2013 10:28:00 AM PDT by RBStealth (--raised by wolves, disciplined and educated by nuns.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

Ah yes, and to make matters even more comical, your evangelical street preacher friends who were there protesting General Conference, turned their wrath on the women and started screeching at them from the words of Paul.

“Let the women keep silent in the churches” as well as “wives, be subject unto your husbands”.

It was an amazing little scene of laughable irony. Oh, and the group didn’t even know the hymns they were singing, one of the most popular LDS humans, “The Spirit of God Like a FIre is Burning”. The “sister” leading the music had to look up the first verse on her phone, and they she repeated the first verse. There were lots of gay and lesbian supporters there too. It was a total sham.

But thanks for perpetuating the leftist feminist movement, you do yourself proud.


13 posted on 10/08/2013 10:35:03 AM PDT by Ripliancum (Mosiah 29:27. Look it up.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: teppe

Btw, may I suggest you actually stop catering to the “Johnny-come-lately” mentality of blanking out on history & study a concept Martin Luther reinforced called “the priesthood of all believers.” ... Based upon passages like 1 Peter 2:4-9 & Revelation 1:6...???


14 posted on 10/08/2013 10:35:39 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Ripliancum; teppe; All
...perpetuating the leftist feminist movement, you do yourself proud.

How is recognizing passages like 1 Peter 2:4-9; Rev. 1:6; Luke 2:36; and Acts 21:8-9 "leftist" and "feminist?"

What? Do you & Teppe & most Mormons snip those passages -- along with Judges 4 & 5 re: Deborah the Judge -- from your Bibles?

What do you do the female prophetesses like Anna (Luke 2:36) & Philip's four daughters (Acts 21:9)? Snip them from your Bibles? Ignore them? Pretend they never existed because they don't fit your Mormon paradigm?

Even your female missionaries wind up exhibiting much more "authority" than you may care to admit to...

15 posted on 10/08/2013 10:53:27 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: RBStealth

Your not biblical in your condemning of Mormonism. What are you? A faithless ex-Mormon? An atheist? A Christian?


Confused atheist. Told him before:

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”


16 posted on 10/08/2013 12:00:09 PM PDT by S.O.S121.500 (Case back hoe for sale or trade for diesel wood chipper....Enforce the Bill of Rights. It's the Law!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: RBStealth
I am an evangelical Christian. I always enjoy your articles, but this one?

#1...The Mormon priesthood isn't like a Catholic one...Even Mormon bishops are "lay" people...NOT ordained...

#2... Lds give the Aaronic priesthood even to 12 yo boys...hardly a "high" standard...

Your not biblical in your condemning of Mormonism

I assume based on your other comment above, you mean on male-female distinctions...

If you're RC, I'll at least understand where you're coming from...If you're protestant by any chance, then you don't even know your own history, for Martin Luther reinforced the concept of the priesthood of all believers.

The priesthood of all believers is QUITE New Testament...It's found in passages like 1 Peter 2:4-9 and Revelation 1:6.

We find female prophetesses in Luke 2:36 (Anna) & Acts 21:8-9 (evangelist Philip's four daughters).

And please be careful in "faulting" the Holy Spirit for giving this gift to females in those circumstances.

What next? Are you going to find fault with Israel allowing Deborah to be a Judge-leader? Or for allowing Esther to be an intercessor where no man had the inroad (or seeming courage) to proceed?

17 posted on 10/08/2013 12:51:29 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
..are you claiming that the Mormon missionaries are full of “liberals?” ???

No.

I'm saying you are a Christian bashing liberal.

Like most liberal hysterics, you only bring one thing to the table.
At FreeReublic, you only bring your hatred for Mormons.

18 posted on 10/08/2013 12:57:49 PM PDT by laotzu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: laotzu
Tough-loving people with the truth is still love: "Love rejoices in the truth" (1 Corinthians 13:6) -- versus those like yourself who distort the truth, attempt to censor the truth, etc.

If you can't stand the radiant heat of the truth, get outta the truth-kitchen.

If you want to continue to patronize people & treat them like little kids who can't stand to hear realities of real-life truth & real-life history, then just go pick up a no-god religion like, say, Buddhism.

19 posted on 10/08/2013 1:29:54 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

thanks for your reply.
As I understand your an Evangelical with perhaps a noted difference, amongst Evangelicals, of allowing female clergy/reverends.

Of course your read of the ‘eternal priesthood’ doesnt follow with most of historic protestantism, fundamentalism, evangelicalism or Catholicism(me).

Lots to fear in disagreeing with a main portion of historic Christianity.

But Okey Dokey.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordination_of_women

Evangelical Christians who place emphasis on the infallibility of the Bible base their opposition to women’s ordination partly upon the writings of the Apostle Paul, such as Ephesians 5:23, 1 Timothy 2:11-15, which appears to demand male leadership in the Church.[66] Traditionalist Roman and Orthodox Catholics may allude to Jesus Christ’s choice of disciples as evidence of his intention for an exclusively male Apostolic Succession, as laid down by early Christian writers such as Tertullian and reiterated in the 1976 Vatican Declaration on the Question of the Admission of Women to the Ministerial Priesthood.[67]

Supporters of women’s ordination may point to the role of notable female figures in the Bible such as Phoebe and others in Romans 16:1, the female disciples of Jesus, and the women at the crucifixion who were the first witnesses to the Resurrection of Christ, as supporting evidence of the importance of women as leaders in the Early Church. They may also rely on exegetical interpretations of scriptural language related to gender


20 posted on 10/08/2013 3:51:38 PM PDT by RBStealth (--raised by wolves, disciplined and educated by nuns.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

You and I have a very different understanding of those verses, and so do your own evangelical friend protesters at Temple Square over the weekend. I too would like to know what denomination you are, and if your own feminism beliefs play a role in what your understanding of the bible is. As has been stated by other non-Mormons here, your beliefs are counter to most of Christendom.
Perhaps you should lay aside this latest anti Mormon effort and move on to your next one, you have so many, no one will notice.


21 posted on 10/08/2013 4:50:47 PM PDT by Ripliancum (Mosiah 29:27. Look it up.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
thread useless pictures photo: This Thread Is Useless Without Pictures nopix.jpg
22 posted on 10/08/2013 5:56:32 PM PDT by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ripliancum; RBStealth; All
As has been stated by other non-Mormons here, your beliefs are counter to most of Christendom.

Not at all.

1. Most of Christendom is anti-ordaining women. (I've NEVER advocated ordaining women; and Mormons don't really ordain women or men for that matter! They pride themselves on "lay leaders" leading the church...so "ordination" issue is not at play here...it's a "straw man" issue here & you know it...it's misleading to pretend it is!)

2. Most of Christendom places "prophets" within the time frame of
(a) The Old Testament;
and (b) the earliest church (Philip's daughters -- Acts 21:8-9)...or they say that Philips daughters were not prophetesses -- but rather had a spiritual prophetic gift...more dynamic than a given "official office" within the Church.

I am NOT at odds with either (a) or (b) above, ESPECIALLY given that Hebrews 1:1-2 clearly says:
1 In the PAST God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 BUT in these LAST DAYS he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Hebrews 1:1-2 CLEARLY says that the main consideration as to why we no longer need any "offices" of "prophets" is because Jesus is the Ultimate Prophet...and He promised He would never leave His Church (Matthew 28:20).

YOU -- and other Mormons -- are at odds with Hebrews 1:1-2...despite its very "latter-day" specific language! YOU -- and other Mormons -- are the ones who adhere to prophet offices...which makes you wonder why if Anna was a prophet (Luke 2:36), why do you discriminate vs. females as prophets merely upon skin texture & biological differences!!! Here the Book of Mormon CLEARLY makes an unusual claim that Jesus' church was well established well before Jesus mentioned "church" for the first time in Matthew 18...which would mean that Anna was a "prophet" (Luke 2:36) at a time that the Mormon church claims the church was already in operation!!!!!

3. I utterly denounce most of the feminist worldviews INSIDE and OUTSIDE the church. That includes denouncing feminist perspectives as commonly uttered by liberal mainline denominations like the United Church of Christ, Presbyterian USA, the Episcopalian Church, the ELCA, the United Methodist Church, & other similar bodies. Many of these are also pro-abortion at many levels -- and you of all people should know that I even criticize Mormon church leadership positions on abortion as quite liberal in some areas...like if you pray to the Mormon god and he says, "OK, you can have an abortion," that gives Mormons the go ahead to kill at will.

23 posted on 10/08/2013 7:52:35 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Ripliancum; teppe; All
You and I have a very different understanding of those verses...

What? Are you claiming that...
(a) The text -- like 1 Peter 2:4-9 -- can't speak for itself?
Or that (b) The Holy Spirit stuttered so much in speaking thru Peter we can't understand plain Greek (now translated into English)???

What plain part of 1 Peter 2:4-9 is there to misunderstand?

Let's review:

This time I'll use the KJV; let's just focus on verses 5 & 9:

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual HOUSE, an holy PRIESTHOOD, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Questions:
1. What "house" do you know of excludes women?
2. Are only MEN "acceptable to God by Jesus Christ" -- or are women also?

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal PRIESTHOOD, an holy NATION, a peculiar PEOPLE; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light

Questions:
3. Since when in the history of the Judeo-Christian world have women been excluded when an overall reference is highlighted as a "nation?"
4. Since when in the history of the Judeo-Christian world have women been excluded when an overall reference is given as a "people?"
5. Have only men been "called out of darkness into His wonderful light?"
6. And note the adjective "royal" -- since when are queens & princesses excluded from royalty???

ALL: Note the Scripture-twisting, open distortion, & Bible-verse snipping Mormon apologists like Ripliancum have to resort to so as to NOT having to face plain readings of the Scriptures.

Ripliancum & Teppe would have you believe that references to...
...households...
...nations...
...people groups...
...royalty...
...and kingdoms [Revelation 1:6]...
...automatically excludes women...
...just so that they don't have to wrestle with the plain texts that the priesthood is given to these GROUPS!

That is shameful Scripture-twisting...and if Catholics buy into it as well -- just so that they can continue to make "priesthood" mean something it is Biblically not -- that is placing tradition ahead of the New Testament!

And then for all of you Protestants & Catholics who think "ordination" is Biblically based, please provide the Greek word for "ordained" contained in the New Testament -- and give us a NT Biblical phrase where the word "ordained" is attached to a specific "ordained" leader in the Church...

24 posted on 10/08/2013 9:05:04 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
If you want to continue...then just go pick up..

Pelosi denies being a liberal, claims to be a Christian, and hands out homework assignments as insults.

How many botox injections have you had? Inquiring Christians want to know.

25 posted on 10/09/2013 7:12:08 AM PDT by laotzu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

And this, Colofornian is why I stopped discussing things with you long ago. You take a teaching or a scripture we’re discussing, and in the same breath of accusation of twisting scripture, you snip what is convenient for your debate tactics, all the while engaging in malicious contention that that I have no stomach nor desire for.

I will respond this last time as to your tactics, and then be done with you. Your 1 Peter “interpretation” leaves out who he is talking to in these phrases. Just a few verses later in 17, he speaks of the brotherhood. “17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God...” It’s not until verse one of the next chapter that he addresses the women, (”Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands...”)

Yes, we have a different view of scripture, and it’s different than most of your own evangelical and protestant fellows, and especially our Catholic friends. You lambast modern prophets and apostles, yet we are admonished to have them precisely so we aren’t carries about with every wind of doctrine, like seen among your varying viewpoints on this issue alone.

Your constant bashing of my faith, through hostility, while getting my ire at times, has shown me that there is no effort on your part to convert through the spirit of Christ. I will stop responding to you, because I too get filled with contention when I do, and I have no desire to go there anymore. Good luck to you, I hope you find peace.


26 posted on 10/09/2013 9:31:49 AM PDT by Ripliancum (Mosiah 29:27. Look it up.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: RBStealth; All
whats next Colofornian? articles against mormonism because they wont have gay bishops?

FYI...From the AP Oct. 8 2013: Mormon Church softening its stance on homosexuality

27 posted on 10/09/2013 12:53:42 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

I have no doubt that Mormonism will adapt itself again to the culture. Did it before, will happen again. Especially in the area of polygamy.


28 posted on 10/09/2013 1:09:09 PM PDT by RBStealth (--raised by wolves, disciplined and educated by nuns.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: RBStealth
I have no doubt that Mormonism will adapt itself again to the culture. Did it before, will happen again. Especially in the area of polygamy.

Yes. 100% agreement there.

29 posted on 10/09/2013 1:12:10 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Ripliancum; All
No need to respond, Ripliancum...but "for the record" -- and for the benefit of others reading:

You say... You lambast modern prophets and apostles...

But per Hebrews 1:1-2, which apparently you have not taken to heart, says that ONLY JESUS CHRIST born of Bethlehem (not the Mormon Jesus born of Jerusalem) is our Living Prophet. And, no, I don't lambast Him.

You say... Good luck to you, I hope you find peace.

OK, I know that "Good luck" is a common trite phrase -- usually no deep ponderous underlying aspect attached -- but ya know, Rip, God is sovereign. I am not fatalistic; nor do I believe in "luck" -- good or bad.

And peace? Jesus is not only our ONLY PROPHET, but He Himself is our Living Peace! And yes, I have found Him...or rather, He found me:

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; (Ephesians 2:14)

You say..."Your constant bashing of my faith..."

Yet, which bashers assumed the now 24/7 initiative to claim about worldwide Christianity that...
...all Protestant, Catholic & Orthodox churches are all "apostate?"
...all Protestant, Catholic & Orthodox churches are allegedly not part of the "only true & living church on the face of the earth" (D&C 1:30) -- thereby labeling them as false and dead?
...all Protestant, Catholic & Orthodox creeds -- 100% of them -- are an "abomination" to the Mormon gods?
...the gift of indwelling Holy Spirit is to be found NOWHERE outside of Mormonism? 
...no missionary work outside of Mormonism is recognized as divinely authorized? 
...no baptism outside of Mormonism is recognized as divinely authorized? 
...no communion outside of Mormonism is recognized as divinely authorized? 
...no spiritual gifts outside of Mormonism is recognized as divinely given? 
...although the apostle Paul wrote about prophetic gifts to the Corinthians (which is distinct from any official "OFFICE" of prophet as we find in the Old Testament), Mormonism claims no one but their top echelon speaks prophetically any more as guided by the Holy Spirit? [Ironically, many Mormon apologists and writers have attempted to belittle Christianity for saying God doesn't reveal revelations any more; yet, these very advocates of Mormonism have "bottled up" God from speaking to anyone beyond a few who happen to live in Salt Lake City!] 

Answer to each of these questions? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) YOUR faith, is it not? (Then start taking responsibility for what your tithe pays for!)

Why does your Mormon faith bash us 24/7 as the heirs of "the Great Apostasy?"

Why does your faith bash us 24/7, claiming we in the Christian church have...
...zero priesthood authority?
...zero authoritative, prophetic revelation
...our spiritual forefathers corrupted the scriptures beyond internal restoration or reformation?

Why does your faith bash 100% of our professing believers as being "corrupt" -- corrupt in both our theology as well as our individual & collective morality? (Joseph Smith History, vv. 18-20, Pearl of Great Price)

ALL: For more of the above, see this thread posted Oct. 9, 2013: The Great Apostasy [Mormonism labels ALL Protestant, Catholic & Orthodox churches 'apostate']


30 posted on 10/10/2013 2:53:19 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

Your words and tactics speak volumes louder than my silence. Please don’t bother asking for a response from me again.


31 posted on 10/10/2013 10:50:28 AM PDT by Ripliancum (Mosiah 29:27. Look it up.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson