What if ‘Once Saved, Always Saved’ is Wrong?

The Christian Diarist ^ | October 20, 2013 | JP

[metmom]

Incoming in

3.....

2.....

1.....

[metmom]

I guess I missed that next response. It’s been a long day and I’m pretty tired and not thinking clearly.

But I have seen plenty of people telling me I’m wrong without ever telling me who I’m wrong or why they’re right. It gets old after a while and sometimes I lose patience when I see it or perceive that it’s happening again.

Sorry.

[metmom]

yet that is in contrast to osas

No it isn't.

Salvation is a done deal the second we accept Christ.

Growth is a dynamic process.

[Revolting cat!]

Huh? Where did I suggest that you were passing judgment on me? Re-read my reply and replace the word ‘you’ with the word ‘one’.

[metmom]

Well then, who certifies that you’re ‘born again, if Holy Jim Bakker (before he was indicted), or Saint Billy Graham (before he declared that there is freedom of religion in the Soviet Union) does not do it?

The Holy Spirit.

When He invades your life, you KNOW it.

There is no guessing. If you are wondering how you can tell if the Holy Spirit is in your life, there's really a pretty good chance that He's not.

[Iscool]

Even better is when a Catholic shows a protestant the text in the original Greek, supplies 12 examples and the protest jumps to the tertiary definition bypassing the primary and even the secondary definitions trying to claim victory.

Tertiary definition??? I couldn't count the times the Catholic scriptures go to the tertiary definitions and far to often, definitions that don't even exist in any manuscripts...

You don't have any original Greek...All you have is a lexicon...But whose Greek lexicon are you referring to??? Nestle's???

[3] Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Douay Rheims version...

Almost every Catholic version out there says born again, even your Catholic Jerome...

If all these scholars feel it should be 'again', including Jerome, then we can be sure that they have the correct translation...

In view of this evidence, one has to wonder what the motive is behind this accusation of 'born again' being wrong...

[boatbums]

So, when Peter uses the term "born again" TWICE:

I Peter 1:23, "For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

And

I Peter 1:3, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy we have been born anew to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead"

In both verses the Greek word used is ἀναγεννάω (anagennaō), and means:

I.to produce again, be born again, born anew

II.metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

From the Vine's Expository Dictionary:

2 Verb Strong's Number: g313 Greek: anagennao

Beget, Bear (Of Begetting), Born:

ana, "again, or from above," with No. 1, is found in 1Pe 1:3, 23.

Note: In Jhn 3:3, 5, 7, the adverb anothen, "anew, or from above," accompanies the simple verb gennao.

In truth, the term "born again/from above" is acceptable to "Protestants" and which HAS been expressed many times here. It doesn't change ANYTHING and is a mountain out of a molehill thinking when used to presume ONLY the Catholics get it "right". Don't be fooled, hoodat!

[Iscool]

Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

[Cronos]

We were talking about the Czech guy

[boatbums]

"Again" is a tertiary definition. If Jesus had truly meant again He would have used "Palon." You are just plain wrong.

How many times do you plan on going around this carousel??? John 3:3 uses the Greek word "ἄνωθεν (anōthen)" for "born again/from above". we already know that. HOWEVER, to insist someone is "wrong" because they do not agree to your strict use of "from above" for that Greek word only proves your OWN error. How many times in the New Testament IS that Greek word used? I'll tell you - 13 times. In some of those verses "from above" would certainly fit, but in others it would be stupid to insist it ALWAYS meant that. For example,

Luke 1:3 - It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first (anothen) to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus

And, - Acts 26:5, Which knew me from the beginning (anothen) if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.

And, - Galatians 4:9, But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again (anothen) to be in bondage?

The point is STILL that what Jesus told Nicodemas was that a new birth had to happen in order for a man to be saved. Even Peter used a term that meant "born again" (see I Pet. 1:3 and I Pet. 1:23).

[boatbums]

Know what ya mean! A few months back I went through a drive-through for a quick burger while I was running errands. Without realizing it, I had pulled a little too close and my driver's side mirror bumped into a pole surrounding the window. It snapped the whole thing off and it was hanging by the wires! I was tempted to tell my husband someone bumped it in the parking lot and it was like that when I came out because I didn't want him getting mad at me for being careless, not to mention it was gonna cost about $300.00 for the dealer to replace it, but I just couldn't lie to him. When I got home I first called the dealer to find out the cost and then went to him and told him what I did. Instead of getting mad, he was okay with it and we set about looking into fixing it ourselves. He was always very handy around the boat, and he was able to epoxy the broken pieces together and reset the thing back in place and it didn't cost a cent. It still works great and no one could tell it had ever been broken. I also was at peace because I didn't lie and was willing to face up to my responsibility. It showed me yet again what a wonderful husband the Lord gave me!

[boatbums]

I have a pretty good idea what that “motive” is.

[Hoodat]

Not sure what you are trying to say here. I am not interested in discussing Catholic v. Protestant. I was simply pointing out that many assign meaning to the term 'born again' that simply is not supported by scripture. There are basically only two references to the term, one by Jesus in John 3, and the other by Peter in 1 Peter 1. Contrast that to how often Jesus talks about the kingdom of heaven. Matthew alone contains over 50 of these references.

But I appreciate it any time someone brings up the Greek meaning of anything scriptural. Thanks.

[Hoodat]

No problem, thanks.

[boatbums]

Sure, no problem. I just wanted to let you know that this “conversation” over the subject has been hashed and rehashed many times on the RF. Some would like others to believe “they” have a corner on what is true and anyone who disagrees with them on one thing MUST be wrong on every other thing. From the few times you and I have interacted here, I think we pretty much agree on most stuff. I guess I was being “protective” of you. :o)

[Hoodat]

The point is STILL that what Jesus told Nicodemas was that a new birth had to happen in order for a man to be saved.

Nope, that is not what Jesus said. He said one could not see the kingdom unless one was born again. The whole point of Jesus ministry was to teach us how to live here and now. Unfortunately, many pass over that, focusing instead on where they will end up when they die. Salvation is not the finish line. It is the starting line. It is all about process and relationship here and now. It is about dying to self, renewing the mind, and becoming a new creation in right-standing with the Father. It is about the restoration of what God originally established in the Garden.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

John 3:17

Jesus came to save the world that God originally created, giving dominion to us. God is not a micro-manager. He does not go back on His word. Man forfeited dominion over to satan in the Garden. Christ came so that we could get it back.

[Hoodat]

Sorry, I get a bit overly sensitive to the terms 'saved' and 'born again'. I believe it is intentionally ambiguous (as is the kingdom) because God wants us to come to Him with it instead of arguing on some online forum.

My opinion on 'saved' is that it is something that technically won't happen until after I die. It's not something that I have to convince myself of while I am alive. As long as my relationship with the Father grows deeper, my assurance rests with Him because of who He reveals Himself to be in my life. If I truly relate with him as 'Father' and son, then I have no fear about where I stand.

Fear is the root of all sin. I want to get to a place where fear is permanently cut out of me forever. Needless to say, I have a long long long way to go.

[Hoodat]

Hus and Wycliffe both taught that the Bible should be translated into the common language and given to the people. Hus was burned alive for it. Wycliffe’s corpse was dug up and destroyed. The Church went after both equally, regardless of nationality. It was their belief that posed a threat to the power of the Church.