Posted on 10/27/2013 11:12:31 AM PDT by narses
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One thing stands out that I have learned from Catholicism is that no matter what the topic, the Catholic religion is right and everyone else is wrong, regardless of the facts...
In view of the historical forgeries put out by your religion, why should anyone believe your religion over John Foxxe???
If one wants to reestablish the Catholic Church as a denomination worthy to be respected, a great place to start would be by trashing one of the most read books in the history of mankind.
Anyone who takes the Catholic Churches side in this debate will need to be blind to historical facts that were well established before the author John Foxe or the inventor of the printing press, Johannes Gutenberg, were even born.
In his book, John Fox related that a Catholic by the name of Grimwood of Hitcham had been a great enemy of the protestant revolutionaries, and was punished "by a judgment of God," and "his bowels fell out of his body." Whereas, the protestant Anthony Wood relates that, during the reign of Elizabeth I, a certain Protestant minister related in a sermon the account of Grimwood’s death, using Fox as his authority. But, unfortunately for the parson, not only was Grimwood alive at the time when the sermon was preached, but happened to be present in the church to hear the sermon, and brought an action of defamation against the preacher.That "one of the most read books in the history of mankind" is filled with lies like the above and distortions is sad, no?
Do you defend the religious persecution of non-Catholics by Queen Mary and her bishops? Why?
Fox’s book aside, there isn’t any historical dispute that hundreds of people who executed for “heresy” in Mary’s reign. Are you OK with that?
mistake. Here’s what I should have written
Fox’s book aside, there isnt any historical dispute that hundreds of people were executed for “heresy” — ie for not accepting Roman Catholicism — during Mary’s reign. Are you OK with that?
Because people who were around in 1570 knew so much less about the 16th century than we do now.
/s
With the fact that there were state sponsored executions? Facts are facts. Fox didn’t bother with facts or fact checking, you acknowledge that, right?
The lies that Fox told were well documented at that time.
Being popular doesn't make something true.
Hundreds of people were also executed during her father's, her brother's, and her sister's reign. Although the formal charge against them was "treason," in point of fact they were executed for not accepting the religion dictated by the State, since non-acceptance of that religion was defined as treasonous.
Some of them were executed because they were more Protestant than the monarch, and several hundred because they were more Catholic than the monarch.
Are you okay with that?
The history was ugly on both sides. Let's tell the whole truth, shall we?
“are you ok with that?”
No. Now answer my question. Are you OK with Mary’s persecution of Protestants? It shouldn’t be hard to answer yes or no.
Why are you trying to play prosecutor here? This is not about other FReepers, it is about the credulous lies told by Fox.
you don’t want to answer my question. Are you OK with Mary’s persecution of protestants? It’s very hard to get some Catholics to criticize undisputed, historically verified, policies of persecution — and executions — by some Catholic monarchs and hierarchy. They want to change the subject or obfuscate, instead of answering.
I’m not playing prosecutor. I’m asking you a question that you apparently don’t want to answer — do you believe Mary’s persecution of protestants was wrong? Fox’s book may have errors — but no credible historian, whatever his religion, denies that Mary had a policy of persecuting — and executing — heretics. Are you OK with that?
“Fox’s book may have errors ...”
Nope, wrong. It has errors, many of them. Some documented right here. That IS the point of this thread.
Are you OK with that?
It’s very hard to get some protestants to criticize undisputed, historically verified, policies of persecution — and executions — by some protestant monarchs and hierarchy.
What’s the point of your post? To diminish the very real - documented - persecution of protestants, by focusing on one author’s reports that were wrong. You’re implying that because Fox may have got it wrong in some of his reports, we shouldn’t care about the hundreds of documented executions of heretics by Mary and her bishops. I have chimed in to remind readers that John Fox shouldn’t be the issue -— the issue is the real persecution, on a massive scale, that really happened.
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