Baptist’s BYU visit marks thaw in Mormon-evangelical cold war

roonte.com ^ | 10/30/2013 | Adelle M. Banks

[Ripliancum]

Last month, after being sure to get his caffeine fix at Starbucks, Southern Baptist leader Richard Land went where few evangelicals had dared to go before: the Provo campus of Brigham Young University, the intellectual heart of Mormonism.

After lecturing on "family, faith, freedom and America," Land attended a BYU football game with LDS leaders and joined them to hear James Taylor sing with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Days later, George O. Wood, the general superintendent of the Assemblies of God, also visited BYU, followed by the Rev. R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptists’ flagship seminary.

Is there a new détente — perhaps more practical than theological — between evangelicals and Mormons?

For more than a decade, Mormon and evangelical scholars have discussed their differences and similarities, and even written books together. But leaders of the two faiths appear to have reached a new juncture, with some on both sides seeing benefits in more public engagement.

"At the very least, the two communities, evangelicals and Mormons, have been … each other’s worst enemies," said Richard Mouw, the former president of Fuller Theological Seminary and a longtime proponent of evangelical-Mormon dialogue. "There’s a significant part of the evangelical movement that is now having healthy and friendly conversations, and it’s gone from a group of two dozen scholars talking to each other to church leaders meeting each other, going to see each other."

[Ripliancum]

Despite the daily onslaught of Mormon bashing threads on FR, it's nice to see actual evangelical leaders in the nation having respectful dialogue on the shared attributes between Mormons and traditional Christians.

[svcw]

Daily?
Exposure is not bashing.
mormonism is not Christianity, regardless what some guy says.

[BillyBoy]

>> mormonism is not Christianity, regardless what some guy says. <<

And the interesting this is that NO mainstream Christian denomination sees Mormonism as Christianity. Yet according to the mainstream media, only "evangelicals" hold that view. Since when did Catholics, Orthodox, and mainline protestants ever claim Mormons are Christians?

[BillyBoy]

>> mormonism is not Christianity, regardless what some guy says. <<

And the interesting thing is that NO mainstream Christian denomination sees Mormonism as Christianity. Yet according to the mainstream media, ONLY "evangelicals" hold that view. Since when did Catholics, Orthodox, and mainline protestants ever claim Mormons are Christians?

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

This reminds me of a quote that a Catholic offered from Luther on another thread, as an insult against him, which actually I quite enjoyed:

“Those pious souls who do good to gain the Kingdom of Heaven not only will never succeed, but they must even be reckoned among the impious; and it is more important to guard them against good works than against sin.” (Wittenberg, VI, 160, quoted by O’Hare, in ‘The Facts About Luther, TAN Books, 1987, p. 122.)

What better proof against the cult of good works than in these “Christians” legitimizing a religious cult upon the basis of their “shared values”, IOW, alleged love of good works? (This is a religion, by the way, which routinely pressures families to separate from those who leave their religion! And we are talking about ‘shared values’?) No matter what their sentiments are, or what their alleged goodness is, each and every one of them is a soul on its way to hell, unless they come out of the snares of this wretched religion which seeks to subvert the body of Christ!

As for these “Christians”:

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”
(2Jn 1:9-11)

2Co_6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

A pity these “Christians” decided to sell out, instead of doing the only thing a Christian can do amongst such a group: Call for their repentance, and declare a war against the false teachings of Joseph Smith.

[wmfights]

This is a terrible mistake, unless they are asking the mormons to convert and become Christians.

[svcw]

I can not name a single Christian group as you mentioned that says mormonism is Christianity, and why would they, it’s not.

[Mr Rogers]

“The recent Utah meetings, which came at the invitation of LDS leaders, have centered on faith, family and religious freedom. Mohler — who was careful not to paper over doctrinal distinctions in his BYU speech — addressed joint concerns about the intersection of those issues.”

A link that works:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57062262-78/evangelical-byu-mormon-mormons.html.csp

A common belief in the traditional family - albeit with ONE wife - does not mean Baptists believe Mormons are Christians. They are not. Heck, I agree with Putin’s views on homosexuality, but that doesn’t make me a Commie Pinko...

[Oratam]

You can’t contain yourself, can you?

[demshateGod]

If there was any question we’re in a Laodicean age, that question is answered.

[Mr Rogers]

“The outreach has gone both ways. In September, Taylor joined two members of the LDS Quorum of the Twelve Apostles at the Washington installation of Russell Moore, who succeeded Land as head of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission.

“It’s clear where we disagree, but we’re standing together in the public square for religious liberty,” said Moore, who has recently spoken with Mormon officials about military chaplains’ religious rights.”

That part is fine. The problem with going to BYU is this:

“...Stephen Webb, author of the new book “Mormon Christianity: What Other Christians Can Learn from the Latter-day Saints.”

“It’s not just the fact that evangelicals are being more curious about Mormons and being more willing to listen to them and learn from them....”

The Father of Lies won’t bother to be scrupulous with the truth!

[SoConPubbie]

This is a terrible mistake, unless they are asking the mormons to convert and become Christians.

Richard Land never fails to disappoint.

I've got a feeling he won't make it past the next General Assembly meeting of the SBC as their leader.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“You can’t contain yourself, can you?”

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I’m like a can of soda. But the good kind, like from Mexico, the apple-sodas. And when you shake me with your heresy, I explode in tasty scripture.

[lurk]

Bad move on the part of the SBC. They would do both their people and the LDS people more good by drawing the lines of distinction very clearly.

[fishtank]

True Christianity preaches the cross of Christ.

[fishtank]

The lds-org denies that Jesus is the Creator, that everything was created THROUGH Him, BY Him and FOR Him.

They deny that Jesus created even the angels out of nothing.

They do NOT teach the truth about Jesus.

[dragonblustar]

Is Romney going to run again?

[dragonblustar]

2 Timothy (NKJV) Chapter 4 ( Geneva )

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;

( 2 Timothy 4:3 Faithful Pastors in times past took all occasions they could, because men were very prompt and ready to return to their fables.)

[Elsie]

Baptist’s BYU visit marks thaw in Mormon-evangelical cold war

Oh?

From which side?

[Elsie]

Despite the daily onslaught of Mormon bashing threads on FR, it's nice to see actual evangelical leaders in the nation having respectful dialogue on the shared attributes between Mormons and traditional Christians.

Tell me R; do you agree with the statements made here by your chosen religions leaders about TRADITIONAL Christians???

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Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

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