Posted on 10/31/2013 10:27:20 AM PDT by GonzoII
Could Jesus star in a movie today about his own life?
We can speculate forever about things that never will or did happen.
Only Roman Catholics make it out to be dirty.
Some Catholic writers may have been out of bounds in there understanding of sex, nonetheless Catholics don't view sex as dirty:
2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude."145 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:
Sourc: CCC
Except for Mary after the birth of Jesus.
The implication is sex is dirty, otherwise Mariology comes crashing down.
The implication is sex is dirty, otherwise Mariology comes crashing down."
Regarding the implication it could also be implied as a sacrificial act for the love of God. Following your argument we could also derive the same implication from the celibacy of St. John the Baptist, St. Paul and the virginity of Christ himself.
In the end of course as you know, I believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary because the Church tells me so.
This biker dude has some interesting comments on why Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Christ:
”Why did Mary remain a virgin after the birth of Jesus?”
The Church Fathers also had some things to say on this:
But I still think St. Augustine has a good argument with Luke 1:
" "Surely, she would not say, 'How shall this be?' unless she had already vowed herself to God as a virgin . . . If she intended to have intercourse, she wouldn't have asked this question!"--Holy Virginity (4, 4)
The fear of messing with the Holy Spirit's woman may have helped keep him in line.
I suppose He could if He wanted to; but the 'REAL' question here is about MARY; isn't it!?
Sigh...
Matthew 13:55-56
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?"
The "brethren question" has been shown often to be inconclusive:
"These conclusions are not merely the result of "Catholic bias" and special pleading, as many charge. For example, the prominent Protestant Commentary on the Whole Bible comments on Matthew 13:55:
'An exceedingly difficult question here arises: What were these "brethren" and "sisters" to Jesus? Were they, first, His full brothers and sisters? Or, secondly, Were they His step-brothers and step-sisters, children of Joseph by a former marriage? Or, thirdly, were they His cousins, according to a common way of speaking among the Jews respecting persons of collateral descent? On this subject an immense deal has been written, nor are opinions yet by any means agreed . . . In addition to other objections, many of the best interpreters, . . . prefer the third opinion . . . Thus dubiously we prefer to leave this vexed question, encompassed as it is with difficulties. 203
[203 Commentary on the Whole Bible, Robert Jamieson, Andrew R. Fausset, & David Brown, editors, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan, 1961 (originally 1864), 928; emphasis added.]'--- Source"Could Jesus Have Possibly Sinned or Succumbed to Temptation?"
"I suppose He could if He wanted to; but the 'REAL' question here is about MARY; isn't it!?"
The real question was about the former but as things go sometimes in these threads the subjects do change and so we ended up in the latter. No biggy.
Is there any Scriptural evidence Joseph was a widower when he betrothed Mary?
I'll answer that if you tell me if there is conclusive evidence in the Scriptures that the brothers and sisters of Christ mentioned there are children of Mary.
The answer is “no”.
Just HOW 'often'?
What % of the time?
Enough to throw it out completely; or to merely fall back on the old:
"Did GOD really say..."
Often enough on FR and elsewhere and the evidence I posted from Protestant sources is conclusive if it isn't let me know how it isn't.
Thanks for the ping on this post. I wonder if any of the teachings of the Nicolatians (directly deemed as heresy by The Glorified Christ) affected the ECFs to address marital relations in such a way.
James is referred to the brother of Christ in more than one place in Scriptures. We can take one conclusion away from all these accounts. They were surely raised together in the same house and Mary was the mother whether by proxy or birth.
I think my post #75 clearly lays out what we do know from Scriptures. Either way I would not base a theology on it. We don’t have to really. What matters for salvation is in the Holy Scriptures.
There is no conclusive evidence in Scripture that Joseph was a widower.
So; it COULD be real siblings or it COULD be cousins; eh?
Well then; let’s DEFINITELY ignore the first and cling onto the second; for IT surely fulfills the need of Rome to keep Mary a virgin!
Indeed, He gets so little credit.
41 Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. 42 When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom. 43 After the festival was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. 44 Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45 When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”
49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?” 50 But they did not understand what he was saying to them.
51 Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. 52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.
It appears that JOSEPH was the FIRST celibate priest; according to the Scriptures. He's STILL around after 12 years without sex.
What a man!
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