Posted on 11/06/2013 10:45:29 AM PST by Gamecock
GRPL Ping
While there are differences among these treatises, reflecting the different occasions on which they were written, they really speak with one voice, giving us Calvin’s understanding of the basic concerns of the Reformation. These treatises show that for him the Reformation had five key concerns (not the traditional five points of Calvinism!).
Ping for later
The distinction between Reformation and evangelical churches is, IMHO, artificial.
None of the doctrinal bodies associated with any individual one of these churches is perfect. Nor do I have a perfect one to put in place of them, except to point out that Jesus Himself is the ultimate teacher, who will bring out the fine points of the Bible as they become relevant. It’s easy, carried off with the relative freedom of evangelicaldom, to get over-eager and read things into parts of the Bible that Jesus has not yet begun to teach.
Godfrey is an excellent teacher.
The third treatise, “The True Method of Giving Peace to Christendom and Reforming the Church” (1548), was written in response to the imperial victories over the Protestant princes and the imposition of the Augsburg Interim requiring Protestant conformity to certain Roman Catholic practices.
Interesting. I had not heard of that one. I'll have to find a copy.
Against this corruption, Calvin insisted that worship must be directed by the Word of God alone:
Amen.
I think you are right. We share a common faith grounded in the 5 solas, however, after that there are some big differences. It would be nice if the Reformed churches made an effort to recognize how much of the flawed Roman system they brought with them, but at the core we share a common faith and I know I would be comfortable in any of the Reformed churches excluding the Lutheran church.
It’s not easy.
I have come to a place where I recognize and actually see working a Christ that is bigger than any human church organization. Now I might get a lot of disagreement for what I’m about to say, but people in even the most bizarre worship arrangement that still call on Christ by name, will in fact get Christ. Now the errors grieve God greatly, and the fewer the errors are the closer God will get (and conversely, the approach of God will purify the individual worshiper from the errors). This is what makes it possible to get a very godly Roman Catholic, for example. That person may in fact be ignoring most of the official doctrine and going along with the actual gospel.
Evangelical worship groups should use their freedom in order to embrace a better set of doctrines as God enables them to. God wants that. However they don’t need to get it perfect in order to be effective. They only need to have the perfect Christ, who is a real supernatural being, not something that men conjured up by having just the right doctrines in hand.
And so I affirm Christ and His power.
Personally, I’ve gone to a bible church for most of my believing years. I’m attending a Southern Baptist congregation currently. I like the relative freedom in both of those milieus, while still noting the places they could improve.
Amen. I think this has always been the case and typically when any assembly starts to think it has a monopoly on the Truth is when heresy becomes mainstream within that assembly.
This is what makes it possible to get a very godly Roman Catholic, for example. That person may in fact be ignoring most of the official doctrine and going along with the actual gospel.
While I think this is a nice hope, I believe it is misplaced. They preach and practice a different gospel. I don't see how that gets reconciled at judgment.
The Lutherans come the closest to the Roman Catholics with their belief in consubstantiation, but they still hold to the Gospel in that they believe you are saved by Grace Alone through Faith Alone. The Romans don't they believe in all kinds of intermediaries, and think they need to work their way to salvation. I think the Romans have moved so far from The Gospel they have become a separate faith unto themselves.
Evangelical worship groups should use their freedom in order to embrace a better set of doctrines as God enables them to. God wants that. However they don’t need to get it perfect in order to be effective.
Evangelical Christians are the strongest group preaching The Gospel to the world. The world may be going down in flames right now, but The Gospel is being preached everywhere because of Born Again Christians.
I take the simple minded approach now that good is stronger than evil. If you get Christ you get the good. The gospel implementation in a life will NEVER be perfect this side of eternity, in this mortal coil. You cannot tie an individual Catholic's soul to the official church teaching if that Catholic does have Christ. How it any discrepancy reconciled at judgment? Christ's blood. Same as for our own shortfalls of practice that persist to the moment we die. "I was shown mercy, because I acted in ignorance and unbelief."
how it => how is
So be careful of blaspheming the power of Christ’s blood as if a wrong doctrine believed after the actual acceptance of actual Christ as Savior of one’s eternal life (which is an atomic act that pushes all else away at the moment it happens) could rise higher than that blood or pry the accepted Christ away. Once I realized Christ’s actual ability to pierce through evil and stopped blaspheming the blood, all manner of supernatural vistas opened up before me, all biblical and all good.
I don't disagree. I don't believe you have to have a solid theological understanding of Scripture. However, I do believe you must have faith in Christ Alone that his sacrifice is all you need to be saved. If you attach anything else to that faith it really is not faith alone and you don't believe The Gospel.
I believe Scripture does tell us how gut wrenching it will be to see those that are being judged at the White Throne Judgement many of whom thought they were Christians. Having family on my wife's side that are Roman Catholic I understand what's at stake. I've shared The Gospel with them and some became Born Again Christians and others have not.
Sorry, but from a historical point of view, that statement shows how blind westerners are -- even of their own history
there is no mention of the great conversions of Germanics, Vikings, Slavs, Hungarians, Neiman Mongols
There is no mention of the genocide of the Ancient Church of the East by Tamerlane (where he wiped out an entire Church which at one time was 1/3rd of the Christian peopulation)
Or the elimination of Christianity in Yemen, once a Christian land
Then the suppression of Orthodoxy under the Ottomans
Or on the positive sides, the expansion of Ethiopian Tewahod Christianity
Or just in Western Europe, the rise of monasteries, storing knowledge during the barbarian invasions, the conversion of the Franks to Christianity etc.
The Reformation was an important historical event, but by no means the "greatest" historical event for Christendom in the past 1500 years.
Also, this article talks purely of the Calvinistic point of view. It mentions nothing of Lutheran beliefs that retained and retains much of orthodoxy. And it mentions nothing of evangelicals or pentecostals or adventists etc. who have different belief, the radical reformers who calvin and luther etc. despised.
sorry, but there is a massive difference between “reformed” and many “evangelical” groups —> especially because the latter group can encompass many beliefs note the Oneness Pentecostals...
Lutheranism differs from "reformed" -- the former was founded through Martin Luther, the latter from Jean Cauvin or Zwingli
Would you be comfortable in the other groups that arose our of the reformation? Like the Mennonites or the Unitarians?
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