The Two Witnesses and Today's World Leaders

IFB ^ | 11/11/13

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

So was Yeshua lying back there in Genesis?

NO

[Just mythoughts]

It is the virgins that the tribulation is all about. The tribulation is of the saints, not all flesh. It is Satan, inhabiting the world’s king that does the tribulation. You may be confusing the tribulation with Yehova’s wrath, which begins at the end of the trib, at the last trump, and lasts for exactly ten days.

Satan will be this world's king and pretend savior. Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." Wonder WHY people ignore what is actually foretold would be?

The events yet to come have not happened to the flesh inhabitants since the beginning of the world. Not since the days of creation has the devil been allowed to present himself as Savior, although he did demonstrate his method of operation when he thought he could tempt Christ. There has always been some type of war/conflict since the days of creation. And Christ said that wars and rumors of wars was not the end. Well if war is not the sign of the 'end', then that means that a 'peace', 'peace', 'peace' promise is the deception and a lie and signals the countdown to the return of Christ.

Jeremiah 6:14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of My People slightly, saying, 'Peace, peace;' when there is no peace.

15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush:

therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down," saith the LORD.

16 Thus saith the LORD, "Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk therein.'

17 Also I set watchmen over you saying, 'Hearken to the sound of the trumpet.' But they said, 'We will not hearken.'

18 Therefore hear, ye nations, and know, O congregation, what is among them.

19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this People, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto MY words, nor to MY law, but rejected it....

Christ said the tribulation would be 'deception'!!! And the above warning is well under way.

[redleghunter]

I did not take offense. I wanted to focus on the text and not theories.

Please refer me to the NT passages addressing Israel as the church.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

Please refer me to the NT passages addressing Israel as the church.

Paul’s letter to the Galatians 6:16 “peace and mercy be upon all who walk by this rule, upon the Israel of God.

the only ones who walk “by this rule” are Christians, therefore they are the Israel of God.

[StormPrepper]

"the Apostles preached the complete Gospel,"

You are making the leap that everything in the gospel is contained in a few letters by Paul and a few accounts from the other Apostles. Which is simply not the case.

John 20:
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

John 21:25
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Jesus taught face to face. Everything that was taught by Jesus and by the apostles was not written down. And certainly not written down in every letter to every person they ever wrote to. Which is the basis of your argument.

It's like trying to argue that everything taught in college can be found in a study guide given out by a single instructor.

If God did not intend us to get anymore revelation then why was Judas replaced? The position of Apostle was supposed to be perpetual. An Apostle can only be chosen by an Apostle. So when the people chose to kill them there was no one left with the authority to replace those that died.

"God raises up leaders in His Church and He has done that for nearly 2,000 years."

Oh really? And which leaders would that be? It was not His Church nor His leaders. Not long after John departed, the "Church" began burning, maiming, torturing, murdering by the millions for what they called "heresy". Can you show me where Jesus taught men to do that?

God's true Church has prophets and Apostles. Live ones.

"the Scriptures do speak of false prophets arising and leading many astray."

If there are false ones, then there has to be true ones too. Or the instruction would have been, "Beware of anyone claiming to be a prophet." On the contrary Rev 11 makes it perfectly clear there will be true ones too.

Joseph Smith was absolutely a true prophet. And he restored the laws and truths lost after the original Apostles were killed.Want to know one of the keys to unlocking what the Lord means in Luke 13:?

26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Lord says He is going to cast off people who believe in Him. Why? We need a prophet to tell us why and Joseph Smith gave us one of the answers in the Book of Mormon.

Moroni 8:
7 For immediately after I had learned these things of you I inquired of the Lord concerning the matter. And the word of the Lord came to me by the power of the Holy Ghost, saying:

8 Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me.

9 And after this manner did the Holy Ghost manifest the word of God unto me; wherefore, my beloved son, I know that it is solemn mockery before God, that ye should baptize little children.

10 Behold I say unto you that this thing shall ye teach—repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of committing sin; yea, teach parents that they must repent and be baptized, and humble themselves as their little children, and they shall all be saved with their little children.

11 And their little children need no repentance, neither baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling the commandments unto the remission of sins.

We needed a prophet to tell the world that it is solemn mockery before God to baptize little children...among other things.

[roamer_1]

NO

Ok then, please demonstrate how these things in Genesis, promised to the individual tribes, for the last days, somehow magically wind up in the church, or in Yeshua.

[redleghunter]

Paul was discussing circumcision and uncircumcision. He was making the point that the same God of Israel is the same God of the new creation-—Christians.

I asked you read Genesis 12 and 17. Between both references there ARE promises made to Abraham that apply to those in Christ Jesus. There are those that do not and they are specifically to Israel.

If we are to do a full transfer of the unconditional promises stated then all Christians own the land of Canaan. We would also have to discard many OT prophecies yet fulfilled (last chapters of Ezekiel, Zechariah, Joel et al) and say since Israel as a nation rejected Jesus Christ, Oracles of God will not be fulfilled.

[redleghunter]

I have to grin at the use of that verse (John 20:30). It is the same verse Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics use to 'explain' all the traditions that were never written down in the Gospels, Acts and epistles. So you do have that company using the same verse.

Let's look at the entire passage:

John 20

30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Kind of important to include verse 31 because it explains it all right there.

John 21:

24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they *were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself *would not contain the books that *would be written.

Again leaving out an important point. There WERE many other things indeed, but do we assume that John would leave something out that IS important for us to know? In verse 24 we find out the answer. What is given is sufficient. Just as here from Paul:

2 Timothy 3:

14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Prophesy is proclaiming God's Word. I am not a hard cessationist. However, I am a hard Scripture alone Christian. Which means if someone proclaims a revelation or vision or miracle today it must match 100% with the Bible. In the case of miracles it must be in support of promoting and furthering the Gospel of Jesus Christ as we have in the Bible declared by the apostles, demonstrating the Power of God. Not the "touch the TV to get healed" nonsense.

[redleghunter]

We needed a prophet to tell the world that it is solemn mockery before God to baptize little children...among other things.

No, Sir you are incorrect we did not need Joseph Smith to tell us that:

Acts 10:

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “Not since the days of creation has the devil been allowed to present himself as Savior” <<

.
Not counting the pope?

[editor-surveyor]

>> “Christ said the tribulation would be ‘deception!’ <<

.
For those who delight in being deceived, but that happens every day.

[editor-surveyor]

Joseph Smith was a thief, a liar, a plagiarist, and a drunken bar room brawler.

Much of the mormon church follows him in spirit.

[editor-surveyor]

Israel is the physical descendants of Jacob. The members of the tribes, that is what the Angel of Yehova told Balaam.

The land belongs to them only.

[metmom]

I agree with you.

[metmom]

how is the world blessed? by national Israel, Jewish people?

Hello.

The obvious. Jesus.

Anyone familiar with Scripture in the least can figure out something that elementary.

But leave it to Rome to get it wrong, again.

[metmom]

Welcome to FR.

[SkyPilot]

Amen and amen.

Jesus - Yeshua, from the line of David. Our King.

The Lion of Judah. The Son of Man.

Besides being our Savior, I marvel at this. The Jewish people are 0.197% of the world's population, yet they have contributed more in the fields of engineering, medicine, economics, biology, mathematics, physics, chemistry, information technology, the law, and literature than any other race, ethnicity, or nation on earth.

Simply amazing.

Indeed, the entire world is blessed because of the Jewish people.

[GeronL]

Did God use a prophet to create the world? What prophet created animal and eve?

[GeronL]

Did God use a prophet to create the world? What prophet created Adam and Eve?

[colorcountry]

This poster is not a noob - been here for awhile under a different name.

It was approved by FR.