Posted on 11/17/2013 7:49:23 AM PST by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Be both and more.
No doubt the NT and OT is all about Trust AND Obey. From the scriptural evidence the Trust comes first always. If not the message and Person is denied and what good is obeying Jesus Christ if we cannot Trust Him to save us from our sins...all of them. What is really trust/faith if we don't believe the Finished Word of Christ is a complete sacrifice. No one ever doubts the Resurrection was a one time event and complete, why not the sacrifice on the cross, why is that incomplete in the eyes of some?
No one ever argues here Christians, disciples of Jesus Christ don't 'need' to obey. That is what disciples do, they obey their Master. Jesus said to believe in Him (trust and faith) is that not obeying Him is believing in Him? Do we not then do what He tells us to do because we love Him who saved us from sin, separation and hell?
Yes indeed, Trust AND Obey! The Master said it, His apostles proclaimed it, we do it!
When we walk with the Lord in the light of his word, what a glory he sheds on our way! While we do his good will, he abides with us still, and with all who will trust and obey. Trust and obey, for there's no other way to be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.
However, here we are in a hierarchical world. God seems to like the model.
One thing might be that we shall feel no envy in heaven, envy being a great sin, right up there with lust and anger.
Now, take me. I'm not rich. But I have enough, and while I wouldn't turn down anymore, I don't envy those who have it. there is very little extra effort that I would go to to get more, either, unless I had some kind of medical emergency, or something.
I'm actually pretty smart, but there are many that are lots smarter. I like smart, and wish that I was smarter. But I don't envy those ahead of me. I'm happy with what I've got.
Envy is not a sin that I have a lot of trouble with. There are some sins that I do have a lot of trouble with. For instance, the whole “vengeance is mine, saith the Lord” stuff. I sure would like to see a little of it on certain people in the here and now. It is only by intense prayer that I am able to resist taking a little of it from time to time.
But in heaven, I don't expect to have trouble with any sin. I'm in Heaven, for Pete's sakes.
Not the “last supper”. That was a one time thing. “The Lord’s Supper” is what Baptists call what Catholics call “The Eucharist”.
Still, we believe it to be symbolic only, and is done in obedience to Christ’s commands, not because it has any power to salvation.
Jesus did eat meals with His disciples after the Resurrection.
Please see Luke 24.
Interpreting them to suit you own agenda, you mean.
But thanks, I will.
Now THAT is Kora-like!!
In such a case, there is no assurance of salvation whatsoever.
Statements alone sometimes bear witness to our hearts.
Free will is defined as denying Jesus Christ. The first "free will" exercised was used to disobey God. We are brought out of that disobedience when we surrender ourselves to Jesus Christ as Savior AND LORD.
Free will leads to destruction---we should ask Adam about that. Saving faith in Jesus Christ binds us to Christ as Lord. Our compass heading is now set by Him, Jesus Christ. He makes us a new creature. Old things pass away for the new. We are a new "citizen". We don't get 'deported' from His Grace for burning the potroast. We get 'deported' when we 'divorce' Him and deny Him. In the end He will say that He never knew us in the first place; we were never a citizen in the first place but an illegal alien living in the land.
I can’t imagine how being eternally stuck in heaven’s slums (as the other poster put it) won’t cause envy. The key being the eternal nature of the position.
If you are comfortable in your position today, which you believe to be temporary, would you be angry / disappointed if your situation were downgraded a couple of notches?
Oh, yes he did.
He was on the shore cooking when Peter and some other apostles and disciples started to shore. He was cooking a fish on a charcoal fire. Then he asked his friends to supply some more fish from their miraculous catch of fish.
It happened Easter Day.
Is that in your Bible? Or are you forgetting?
My comments were in the affirmative that Jesus Christ shared meals with His disciples quite a few times in the Gospels. Not seeing your point. Every Christian Bible records those events. So what am "I" forgetting? I said Jesus shared meals, you did too so doesn't that mean we are in agreement?
“...Free will is defined as denying Jesus Christ...”
100% correct and thank you for the response and sorry for the mispells. (Typed too fast)
How does one address this after a person professes their faith and then falls into sin?
That is the greater issue -
We have confession - as in 2 Corinthians 5:17-20
Are the “saved’ not sinners anymore? How does this work?
If they sin, for instance ...
Perhaps you need to define what 'faith'/'trust' means to you. If something is a direct revelation, then that is proof and not evidence. Evidence is at the heart of Christian faith. Evidence must be examined to see if the claims are true. Same in a court of law. Witnesses are presented and so is evidence.
“...witnesses are presented and so is evidence...”
And that is the heart of tradition. Go to your bible right now and read 1 Corinthians 23- 25.
Witnesses to the eucharistic supper and evidence that the early Christians celebrated the eucharist, Why is it more than a “supper?”
John 6:53
For my flesh is real food.
I thought that you said he did NOT eat meals with them.
Sir, there are many passages we can examine but the most compelling are from John and Paul. I think you know the passages from Paul on the warring of the flesh? A good one from the Gospels is when Jesus washes the feet of the disciples. He tells Peter they are already clean and just need their feet to be washed. I notice well it is Jesus doing the washing and not the disciples washing their own feet or each other's.
The best I think is what John said here:
1 John 2: My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
Tells me Jesus needs to be our Advocate in order for our sins to be forgiven...all of them---past, present and future. The remainder of this epistle tells us to live Godly lives and to reject evil. We do well to obey what is written.
Another "element" often omitted in some of these discussions? The Holy Spirit. Jesus Promised the Comfortor for all who believed in Him. So when a believer sins the Holy Spirit convicts the sinner to repent, thus bringing us back into fellowship with Him. Another great reference to look at is David's sin and Nathan's confrontation with him. Take a look at that encounter. Truly amazing this Grace.
There is no evidence in Scriptures of Grace coming and going, clinging and then dispensing and coming back again and repeating the cycle daily over and over. There is none of that. To claim Grace as "fleeting" would be denying the Power of God to regenerate the sinner into a new creature. It would deny the Power of God to convict his children of their errors and transgressions.
Sure...Paul wasn't inspired by Jesus to say anything...Over half of the NT is wasted words by Paul...Why are they even in the bible???
The poke never reached the eye...You can't poke unless you have something to poke with...They have nothing...
And more so: Since the Torah is engraved within, and since the type of the Temple is internalized inside of each and every one of us; we, as priests can go boldly into the Holy Place, before the altar of the heart; And that we, as priests have an eternal High Priest within the Temple who performs intercession for us, How then can ANY external mechanism have any effect whatsoever?
When we sin, it is the conviction of the Holy Ruach that makes us aware thereof, and the heartfelt sacrifice upon the altar of the heart that brings forgiveness. That is how the mechanism works.
And furthermore, when the Father puts one in our path who could benefit from our past trespasses, we are bound to witness to that brother, and tell where our own sins lead us, to better accommodate the conviction of the Ruach within HIM, thus turning our awful things into necessary and useful things... victory for the Kingdom! I cannot tell you how many times my testimony has been called for - The Father sending many into my path for the expressed and customized message that I can bring to the table!
This Protestant method is very effective, and WAY more powerful than a confession before some old man with a couple of hail marys to absolve the penitent!
We can dynamically and actively pastor each other, exhort each other, witness and testify, plead the truth and show the Scriptures, But no external source can intercede within the Temple.
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