Posted on 11/20/2013 7:14:42 AM PST by Gamecock
Absolutely nothing.
Arguing in the absurd.
Scripture is aimed at men, not at the Heavenly beings.
No worries mate, I’ve done the same thing. :-)
I’m just trying to get people to think carefully about what is going on.
BTW, yes I am a Christian but I spent enough time in Israel to see how much Christians fighting Christians has damaged our relationship with our Israeli friends.
If you get the chance, go there. It will change your life.
BUMP!
Except that as it is Written John 1:1 In the beginning (that means Genesis) was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ........
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Why Mary is not named anywhere in the volume of the book as being 'begotten'. She to fulfill the prophecy came from the tribe of Judah, the king line and the tribe of Levi, the priest line. There were 12 tribes of Israel, each are named.
Actually, if Luther held simultaneously held the understanding Mary’s purity inherited from the Church before the division of East and West and the Augustinian understanding of Original Sin (he certainly embraced the latter, though not in such a big way a Calvin), Luther would (like the Latin church) have been stuck believing something like the later-formulated Latin doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of the BVM.
We Orthodox object to the Immaculate Conception because we see it as fixing a non-existent problem: Augustine’s view of the Fall and its effects are too extreme (look up a description of the Orthodox doctrine of Ancestral Sin to see what we hold to be the truth of the matter), and so we have no problem with the classical understanding of Mary’s purity and virtue without a jury-rigged fix to make sense of it in the context of Blessed Augustine’s speculations.
Was every single thing that the apostles said, and every single word written about them by later scribes, considered by your church to be Holy-Spirit-inspired, inerrant and infallible?
Tradition? Do you remember the Pharisees they put tradition above truth. The bible says very little about Mary, we know she looked to Christ for her salvation, she was a servant of the God most high. She was a sinner like us. This is what scripture tells us. I do understand the mental gymnastics one goes through to validate this belief.
One point that is always good to remember: even if Luther did believe this, it makes no difference to Protestants. Luther wasn’t the “Pope of the Protestants”, pronouncing doctrine that we all follow. He could believe whatever he wanted about Mary, but if he could not support it with Biblical evidence, then nobody has any compulsion to join him in his belief.
Should have been I don’t understand
Because its not aimed at him, but at men?
Reductio ad absurdum is an authentic logical test. If your use of scripture crashes into it then there is something wrong with your use of scripture.
It strikes me, as you are interpreting that verse, that it is not in agreement with Romans 3:23, already cited in this thread, "for all men have sinned..."
Additionally, being chosen, as you appear to be interpreting it, does not automatically equal staying chosen.
I think the point you are missing is that these disputes exist. They won’t go away simply because you prefer not to talk about them. If we are ever to achieve reconciliation amongst all the churches, as Christ surely would want, then we are going to have to settle some disagreements, which you cannot do by ignoring them.
In that scripture passage you refer to, it was being stated that Jews are not above gentiles, as we are all justified by faith alone.
Even if Martin Luther believed in Mary's immaculate conception, the Reformation does not suffer loss. Neither myself nor the Lutheran church considers Luther to be an infallible source of either interpretation or revelation. However, my Romanist friends need to do a little better at proving Luther believed in the immaculate conception of Mary.
The point is the Roman Catholics here, and out in the real world, think they are playing "gotcha" with supposed Luther quotes. Most of the are wretched out of context. The point of my posting this article is to refute one of their straw men.
Tradition is not talking about the Jewish law. The definition of Holy Tradition is truth that was handed down one person to another, face to face.
You are confusing the definitions of tradition.
Not all of it. You know that.
Not all of it. You know that, don’t you?
No problems here.
I was made without blame through Jesus.
Plus He who has begun a good work in [me] will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Read from Luke 1: 26 onward.
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