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To: Viennacon; cuban leaf
I also agree, that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

I think drinking to excess is not only drunkenness as described in a Biblical fashion, it dishonoring our bodies that God gave us.

However, Christ Himself drank wine.

WINE IN THE BIBLE: A BIBLICAL STUDY ON THE USE OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES

The above article gives a very thorough explanation of the issue from a Biblical perspective.

Christ even gave this brilliant retort to those who would accuse Him:

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds."

Freeper Cuban Leaf also brought up the subject of obesity, which is a subject that very, very few Christians or pastors discuss.

I have heard many sermons solely devoted to alcohol.

I have never, ever heard a single sermon devoted to gluttony.

America currently has a an obesity epidemic approaching 1/3 of the entire population.

The Bible condemns this behavior as much as it condemn drunkeness:

Proverbs 28:7 The one who keeps the law is a son with understanding, but a companion of gluttons shames his father.

Proverbs 23:20-21 "Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

There are many others, including warnings from Christ. But little is sometimes said on the subject, because many people are obese - and it is not a topic that people (even in the church) are are eager to "go there."

Can you imagine sitting in a church, noticing all the fat or obese people around you, and listening to a message on over eating? I am sure some pastor has done it, but I have yet to see it.

The message, as has been stated here, is moderation in all things, but also self control, which is a gift of the Holy Spirit:

Galatians 5:22-23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

66 posted on 11/25/2013 1:20:06 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot
I also agree, that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

>>1 Corinthians 6:19-20 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. <<

I'm afraid your text above is a mistranslation, whose interpretation using the English alone leads you to a serious error.

In fact, the words "body" and "temple" in the Koine are singular both in the Received Text and in the Critical Text, not plural. But "you" and "your" are second person plural, and involves the several individuals as combined into one singular body.

The mistranslation you have leads one to believe that this is a reproof for and to each individual as affecting only one's state of relationship with the Lord. That is very definitely not the gist of this verse (though erring in that direction is quite tempting), when examining the grammar.

No, this is a letter of correction addressed to the local immature church as a body at Corinth, whose members constitute one body, a local Body of The Christ; and thus the reprimand is toward the conduct of the member as it affects the whole church body.

Here is a more accurate translation:

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's" (1 Cor. 6:19-20 AV)(my strikeout of "the"; the construction is anarthrous).

(It is the local church which here is a temple of the Holy Ghost, not any particular individual. Better yet would be ". . .your body is The Holy Ghost's Temple in y'all . . .)

He/she that engages in sexual immorality (as in this context), or foolishness (Eph. 5:15-17), or drunkenness (Eph. 5:18a) brings not only God's chastening upon him/herself, but more importantly, upon the whole local assembly; as Achan's personal sin brought condemnation upon the whole congregation of Israel (Josh. 7:1-26). Defiling yourself with alcohol as a recreational man-made drug is fraught with retributional action from The God on both him/herself:

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are" (1 Cor. 3:16-17 AV).

(Note that your critical source text also deletes the last half of verse 20.)

72 posted on 11/25/2013 3:48:05 PM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: SkyPilot

Hey, about that article you linked. It was one of the funnier ones I’ve read on the subject (and I’ve read quite a few).

I love this straw man:

“”High-Quality Alcoholic Wine.” The fourth assumption is that the wine Jesus provided was pronounced “the good wine” (John 2:10) by the master of the banquet, because it was high in alcoholic content. Such an assumption is based on twentieth-century tastes.

Albert Barnes, a well-known New Testament scholar and commentator, warns in his comment on John 2:10 not to “be deceived by the phrase ‘good wine.’” The reason, he explains, is that “We use the phrase to denote that it is good in proportion to its strength, and its power to intoxicate. But no such sense is to be attached to the word here.”11”

I don’t know anyone who thinks the quality of wine is in its alcohol content. Well, not anyone since I graduated from high school, anyway. ;-)

It’s an interesting read, but the author is too smart by half. He tries to reform the “real world” of the day while ignoring the “real world” of the day. People were not backward as the author would have you believe.


87 posted on 11/25/2013 7:34:27 PM PST by cuban leaf
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To: SkyPilot

You cannot equate obesity and gluttony. They are not the same. A person can be unwillingly obese without being a glutton, and one can be a glutton without being obese. One is a physical condition, and the other a spiritual one.


121 posted on 11/26/2013 4:53:05 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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