Do Catholics Worship Statues?

Tim Staples' Blog ^ | November 30, 2013 | Tim Staples

[D-fendr]

Do they bow or kneel before them?

So if you bow before your date and ask her to dance, she is an idol?

Since I kneeled before my wife to propose to her, she is an idol?

Is this what makes an idol an idol?

[RBStealth]

I used to worship statues , then I joined a 12 step program.
Now all I worship are my wallet pictures, money and some other material things.

[circlecity]

The ark was covered whenever removed from the Holy of Holies.

[Boogieman]

Notice the only examples you can offer where God doesn’t condemn graven images are ones where God specifically commanded them to be made? A specific commandment can override a general one, but only within the bounds of that specific instance. So, unless you have a special command from God to make images of Mary, Jesus, and the saints, those verses are no help to you.

[Boogieman]

“Granted, some of the peasants do go to church with life size statues and can go too far with the concept.”

What did Paul say about doing things that lead your brothers to temptation? Did he encourage it?

[CynicalBear]

>> Since I kneeled before my wife to propose to her, she is an idol?<<

Were you using her as an image of God through which to worship Him?

[Iscool]

you have never seen a statue as the subject of veneration in a Catholic Church.....you may have interpreted it that way, but that is the danger of interpreting something that you have no knowledge of.....don't try to interpret the Greek language unless you fully understand it lest you be babbling incoherently.

If you knew the bible, you'd know the danger is in doing something that others may interpret as unGodly...

[Iscool]

I see the word "profitable" not "sufficient".

You ever see anything else that God said is profitable for doctrine???

[GonzoII]

"So, unless you have a special command from God to make images of Mary, Jesus, and the saints, those verses are no help to you."

There is no need of a special command to make any images of anyone or anything because it is clear in the context of the prohibitions of same, that they are not to be made in order to worship them.

[rwfromkansas]

Wow!

[Boogieman]

There is certainly a need of a special command if you want to compare what you are doing to the decorations in the Temple or the bronze serpent.

[Boogieman]

In regards to your “context” argument, let’s explore that further. Here’s Exodus 20:17, a different commandment:

“17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.”

Do you think it is okay to cover your neighbor’s house, as long as you do not also covet his wife? Or is it clear from the context that each individual act is proscribed?

[GonzoII]

"Here’s Exodus 20:17, a different commandment:"

We would be going down a different road here because these are moral absolutes. God could never command them because they are evil in themselves, but making a statue is not an evil in itself otherwise God who is Truth and Holy would never command statues to be built. It is clear in Scripture that the Israelites were prone to idolatry and had to be commanded not to build statues in order to worship them.

[Boogieman]

The question isn’t about moral absolutes though, it’s about the context. Both commandments list multiple prohibitions in individual statements. You want to make the prohibitions in one commandment dependent on all the prohibitions (making statues is okay as long as you don’t worship them), but the prohibitions in the other commandment independent (coveting a neighbor’s wife is not okay, even if you are not also coveting their house).

You are being inconsistent in the way you are applying context to these commandments, and that suggests you may be just interpreting them subjectively rather than objectively.

[pgyanke]

That's a contradiction in my view.

And that will remain the source of our disagreement. I am basing my argument on 2000 years of Church teaching back to the Deposit of Faith given by Christ to His Church. You have your opinion. If you care to learn more, there are numerous resources available to you. I will not convince you so there is no reason to continue. Good day and may God bless you.

[MeganC]

“Don’t be afraid to see what you see.” - Ronald Reagan

[D-fendr]

So, we can see that bowing and kneeling is not what makes an idol and idol.

Were you using her as an image of God through which to worship Him?

So we need "God" in or definition. Good.

You now have: "used as an image of God through which to worship Him"

If we take the example of this image:

I think you'd agree this includes an 'image of God' at least as Michelangelo portrayed Him in this instance.

What would make this image of God an idol to complete your definition? Is it an idol? More precisely, imagine a human being in front of it. How would you correctly identify this person as guilty of the sin of idolatry or not?

[what's up]

I was responding to your comment:

And yet you have failed to produce a contradiction

You directed the comment to me personally, so I answered personally.

However, millions note the same thing I have...and Protestant teaching supports it...that the overwhelming evidence in Scripture points to the fact that prayer is directed toward God in Heaven...not saints.

God is omnipotent...therefore it makes sense to pray to Him. If you understand the Book of Hebrews you will understand that there is no barrier anymore between God and us...Jesus has eradicated it. Yet Catholics still desire a mediator. Scripture doesn't support it.

[CynicalBear]

>> I think you'd agree this includes an 'image of God' at least as Michelangelo portrayed Him in this instance.<<

Well you’d probably be thinking wrong. I haven’t heard anyone using that as an image to bow down in front of. I do have issues with those however in that God also said not to try to portray him in any likeness. Why do you think that God never allowed anyone to actually “see” Him? That is an image of man’s construct. God is spirit.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God told Moses that he didn’t see any likeness of God for a reason.

Deuteronomy 4:14 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of likeness on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: 15 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman,

If you feel that reducing God to an image like that gives Him the glory He deserves I certainly can’t stop you.

[D-fendr]

Let's see if we can stay on topic here.

Well you’d probably be thinking wrong. I haven’t heard anyone using that as an image to bow down in front of.

Doesn't matter for the purpose of determining just how you decide what makes an idol an idol. Any example that is fits your definition works, by definition, your definition. Any image of God can be used for illustration of your position, if your position stands up to examination. To wit: "used as an image of God through which to worship Him."

You said you "haven’t heard anyone using that as an image to bow down in front of. " Assume someone did bow down in front of Michelangelo's painting - this image of God. Would they thereby be guilty of idolatry? And would the painting be an idol then?