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To: Arthur McGowan

I suppose it isn’t up to me to Judge the Pope, but I have never believed in infallibility and I think this time he is screwing up.


7 posted on 12/17/2013 4:06:37 AM PST by Venturer (Half Staff the Flag of the US for Terrorists.)
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To: Venturer

He hasn’t done anything that would have any chance of involving Papal infallibility. (A personnel assignment is certainly not an infallible act, for example.) Something for which we should be thankful, I suppose ...


11 posted on 12/17/2013 5:11:29 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Venturer
I suppose it isn’t up to me to Judge the Pope, but I have never believed in infallibility and I think this time he is screwing up.

Well, as RCs will be quick to point out, the pope is held to speak infallibly - w/out the possibility of error - "when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful..he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals." Which is "a power which he can always exercise unhindered." (CCC 891, 882) (Pope John XXIII once stated: "I am only infallible if I speak infallibly but I shall never do that, so I am not infallible".) Rome requires "assent of faith" to these.

The college of bishops also exercises power over the universal Church in a solemn manner in an ecumenical council. "The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, as its head." As such, this college has "supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff."

Meaning no one can dispose a pope without his consent, and "sola singulis" even if incorrect Latin) is most supremely seen in Rome.

Thus Rome has presumed to infallibly declare she is and will be perpetually infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula, which renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as all else she accordingly declares.

Quite the system.

Roman Catholic theology divides the functions of its teaching office into that of the infallible sacred magisterium and the fallible ordinary magisterium, although the "ordinary and universal magisterium" falls under the infallible sacred magisterium, and altogether there are 3 (some say 4) levels of magisterial teaching. And different degree of assent are required relative to different levels.

Of course, RCs cannot tell you which level every teaching falls under, as there is no infallible list of all such, of even all infallible teachings, while it is held that most of what RCs believe and practice do not come from the infallble mag. And those that are may require some degree of interpretation by other levels of the magisterium, as these may, to varying degrees.

And as very few verses of Scripture have been infallibly defined, within the parameters of official RC teaching the RC has great liberty to adopt interpretations of Scripture, such as in his attempting to support Rome's traditions of men as if they were a result of Scriptural substantiation, rather than Rome's presumption as being the supreme authority.

And thus, while RCs attack private interpretation, they themselves engage in the same, and abound with disagreements, outside core essentials.

12 posted on 12/17/2013 7:25:31 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Venturer

Big time.


13 posted on 12/17/2013 7:33:52 AM PST by onedoug
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To: Venturer

Of course, this isn’t a matter of infallibility at all.

The Church does not teach that the Pope is protected by the Holy Spirit from misjudging the character of people, or making unwise appointments. JPII did all those things. He praised the monster Maciel Marcial (Or was it Marcial Maciel?) as a shining example to youth. He appointed one horrid bishop after another.

The latest buzz is that “the Pope doesn’t want culture warriors” (as bishops). Translation: The Pope doesn’t want Catholics.


17 posted on 12/17/2013 9:58:58 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Venturer

but I have never believed in infallibility and I think this time he is screwing up.


I don,t know where this infallible doctrine comes from, i hear from some Catholics that the Church is infallible and then some will deny that there are any one who is infallible.

I also do not believe any one except Christ is infallible.

Paul accused Peter of doing wrong, if its true i have no idea but we can see that if there were one wrong there were two.

The second one would be in the telling, i am curious, do the Catholics believe The first Pope Peter was infallible?

If so do they believe Paul was also infallible? i do not believe it can be both ways.

Being about half way intelligent i would say that if Peter was infallible then Paul would in my mind be the object of suspicion.

The Catholic,s like all of the others want converts to their Church, no one will get me as a convert unless they are willing to be forthright on these matters.


18 posted on 12/17/2013 10:33:58 AM PST by ravenwolf
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