Skip to comments.Your Soul Will Last Forever...Mark 8 pt 8
Posted on 01/04/2014 6:19:57 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospels, the same shall save it. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.(Mark 8:34-38)
Jesus would have us to realize the value of the soul. To die as a lost soul is the ultimate disaster. There would be no remedy for it, nothing could replace the loss of soul.
We created as sentient beings, made in the image of God, self aware and endowed with faculties such as intelligence, memory, conscience, imagination, perception, and a capacity for love, hate, choice, desire, enjoyment, satisfaction, elation, and sorrow, among other wonderful qualities which set us apart from the rest of creation. These were given to us that we might fellowship with God.
But sin perverts these wonderful gifts. We end up loving for, longing for, and even worshiping and adoring that which is less than God. We are not happy, for we cannot attain a justified satisfaction, nor joy. Our consciences tell us that something is wrong. We know we arent right with God, we are not what we were created to be.
But there is a cure for the lost soul. We can be reconciled to God, through Jesus Christ. Our hearts can be taught the gospel, our consciences can be stilled, through the truth that whatever we have done to separate ourselves from God, has been answered for by Jesus on the cross. God is satisfied, and sin has been answered for, once and for all.
Now our souls can be animated by a new principle of Life, for instead of being centered in Self, we can now live by the Holy Spirit who comes to us to save our souls. We can choose the gospel, by justifying God and renouncing ourselves, and enter into a life of Christian discipleship.
Or we can go on insisting that we are not sinners, and continue on living a life centered in Self. Not necessarily selfish in the traditionally understood sense, but in an autonomous sense. The man centered in self, makes his own judgments about good and evil, right and wrong. He is the master of his own destiny, he defines himself, and is answerable only to himself, in short , he is a modern man.
All mens souls are on a trajectory whether they believe it or not. Whatever we are, we are growing in it. A soul is always growing in some direction. Proverbs calls it a path or a way
But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day. The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.(Proverbs 4:18-19)
The souls of the saved are a work in progress ;the seed of life and righteousness is implanted, they grow in grace and knowledge, righteousness increases, even the senses become trained to discern good and evil.
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.(Hebrews 5:14)Such is the journey of the christian. The walk in the light begins as a small match light in a cave , or a sliver of sun on a horizon. I remember when all I knew was that I was a sinner indeed, but Jesus loved me, and died for me. That was enough to transform my life, though I yet saw dimly.
But the Sun of Righteousness steadily arises unto full, broad splendor, eventually showing everything around us in its true spiritual form. the true light now shineth . The thing about Christians is that they can see.
But the wicked are on a way that is an ever-increasing darkness
The first Psalm gives us a hint of this dreadful truth, when he proclaims the blessedness of the one who;
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.(Psalm 1:1)
Notice the degression from walking, to standing to sitting? The one walking in the counsel of the ungodly, is at least still walking. He could turn around, he could yet change direction . But eventually a walk hardens into a stand. This one has taken his stand with sinners; a line has been drawn, sides are taken and a stand is being made. But still there is time to change your mind.
But in the end, a seat is taken with the scorners. As age progresses and no repentance occurs, a paralysis sets in, the rigidity of sin and evil. He sits with the scorners! He sits among the cynical who do not believe in anything, to whom all that is sacred has become an object of bitter ridicule.
Likewise there is a verse in Proverbs 7 that describes this deepening darkness; in the description of the heedless young man, aimless and bored and prey to the Harlot who eventually destroys him, sending him to hell .
Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house, In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night:(Proverbs 7:8-9)
Notice the progression, from the twilight, to the evening , to the black and dark night?
The point is every human soul, saved or lost is on a trajectory, either from sun up to full blazing day, or from twilight to evening to blackest night. Whatever we are, we shall be more of in the next life. The souls capacity for joy, or misery only increases. We are all going to live forever. Neither Heaven or Hell will cancel it out.
The soul will never lose its ability to think, to remember, to ponder and be aware of itself, whether it be in bliss or in terrible remorse.
This ought to be a matter of the greatest concern to you. This is what Jesus was talking about, when he said, what good would to do to gain the world, if in the process you lose your soul? What could possibly make up for an eternal loss? How could you compensate yourself in this life for eternal remorse, bitter regret, deep soul ache?
On the other hand, what are the temporary miseries of this life compared to eternal joy, love, and satisfaction? This is why a wise man once said, If you are a christian, this life with its sorrows and miseries is as bad as it could ever be for you but if you are a sinner, this life with all of its paltry joys and temporary pleasures is as good as it will ever be for you.
Jesus is called the Shepherd and Bishop of your soul," because He alone has the cure for it. Only He can set us right with God again, for he died for your sins, and can renew the conscience, and give us a new center to live by. Ask him to save you, He loves you and would restore your soul.
thank you and bless you pastorbillrandles :)
Our soul is quite valuable, but our soul is NOT immortal without Christ.
1 Cor. 15:53 “For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”
We “put on immortality” when we accept Jesus’s immortality through faith.
The souls of the unsaved will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire. That is the “Second Death”.
Thanks Jim, and also thanks for what you do-
Scubie, Thanks for commenting. Your own tagline is a testimony to my point that both the saved and lost last forever. The destruction of the unsaved shall last forever, to meet the demands of infinite Justice.
I concur. John 3:16 "...shall not perish..." Rev 20:14 "...the lake of fire. This is the second death..." Psalm 92:7 "...their end may be eternal destruction..."
To reinterpret these and other verses to mean eternal life in a tormented state separate from God is inventive, to say the least. The human soul is not immortal, for God alone is immortal - 1 Timothy 6:16.
Regarding your tagline, our choice is actually the New Earth or the Lake of Fire. Heaven is not our eternal destination.
That's an interesting argument, but it is not biblical. John 10:28 (NIV) states "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish". The dichotomy here is eternal life or perishing. Websters defines perish as "...to disappear or be destroyed : to cease to exist". Greek is Appolumi, which means kill, destroy, perish.
One has to contrast these and other plain statements against phrases like in Mark 9:46 "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." which does not contradict perishing, nor does it explicitly support eternal torment, as it says nothing about the souls themselves. One then must fabricate more unbiblical ideas like God cause the damned bodies to ever be regenerating so they can ever be consumed, which is preposterus, and completely unbiblical.
I am trying to communicate a needed truth to a worldly generation who have too often been inadequately evangelized with a very reduced ‘gospel’. These are people who have received a false kind of eternal “fire insurance” but have not ever been shown their own sinfulness or the need to break off from this world. They chose the world over true conversion and discipleship because they believe that the gospel is merely salvation from hell. As for the final destination being the new earth, You are right, but Heaven is coming down to earth. My slogan isn’t meant to be a systematic study of the “Last things”, I am merely trying to make a point to a lost and falsely converted generation.
“Lately I have leavin’ on my mind” http://www.patburt.com/
Well said, I retract my previous statement in light of your clarification. I am thankful for your passion for the lost!
The worm never dies and the fire is never quenched...how can this be if the souls no longer exist?
Grace and Peace to you brother-
Thanks for the post pastor bill.
I agree. I am certainly not against that mission of reaching the lost with the truth of the Gospel of Christ.
Like your first main topic (our soul is valuable), I completely agree. I believe that at the Great White Throne Judgement, the lost will finally see what is truth and how valuable their soul really is, and it will crush them when they realize what they gave in exchange for their soul (which Christ died for and Satan lies for).
Amen brother. People have no idea until God opens their eyes. We have to Pray and faint not!
Analyze Scripture with Scripture. Hold to the major themes,( like John 3:16) to decipher confusing themes. Realize that Scripture has many examples of symbolism.
For example, if a smoke cloud from a burning city went as far as the eye could see, it was and is common to say that the smoke cloud goes on “forever”, when in reality it doesn’t. Also, the garbage pit at Gehenna burned for many, many years and worms fed on dead animals there for many years. Gehenna was known to Israelis as a place of national punishment, however the worms that always seemed to be there, aren’t there today.
Here are a few good links to look at for more in depth study.
Thank you for this.
“And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,” (2 Thess. 1:9).
“Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire” (Jude 7).
“These men are those who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever,” (Jude 1:12-13)
“And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” (Rev 14:11)
Yes that was my understanding as well. I understood that Hell was/is eternal damnation based on Mark and other passages. Jesus was pretty clear that there is a Hell and there is torment. Perhaps damned souls are eventually destroyed based on Revelations (2nd death). If so they experience hell and torment until the 2nd death and then are destroyed and exist no longer. If the period of time between entering Hell's torment and then being destroyed is sufficiently long then it still represents incredible torment and the fact the soul is eventually destroyed seems academic to me. Of course what is time in Hell? Not sure there is even such a construct.
In any event Jesus clearly communicated that there is torment in Hell for damned souls. That is a good enough understanding for me. I defer to more studied pastors and theologians on such details and steer clear of laymen who think they have this figured out. :-)
None of those verse say that a person is tormented forever.
2 Thess. 1:9 simply says that their penalty is eternal destruction. In other words, their destruction is complete and lasts for eternity. These unsaved will be no more. Have you ever burned up chaff? It burns complete. There is nothing left for the eye to see. (Matthew 3:12)
Jude 7 says that the FIRE that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah was eternal. Now, that brings up many questions, one of which is this description symbolic, because the actual fire that burned up the cities isn’t burning today.
Jude 1 talks about the black darkness being forever. That isn’t saying that the unsaved are going to be tormented forever. I could see where there will be a place in the universe that will mark the Lake of Fire or the punishment of sin forever, so that those saved by Christ will always have something to remember what we were saved from. I can’t imagine a place in the universe where the saved will know that God is allowing/causing the unsaved to be in constant torment, especially when many of those unsaved will be close friends and family.
Revelation 14:11 talks about the smoke going on forever. That phrase was symbolic because you know that smoke clouds don’t actually go on forever, they just look that way. When cities were sacked and burned, they burned for a long time and the clouds would seem to go on forever, but what that would mean is that the cities was utterly destroyed.
Now the second part of that verse does cause questions (”they have no rest day or night”). Revelation is a complex book filled with symbolism and fore shadowing and shouldn’t be taken lightly, but I believe what 14:11 is talking about is what Rev. 16:8 details, the sun scorched those who received the mark of the beast and they couldn’t get rest from it, even at night or in sleep. Eventually these people will die and face the Great White Throne Judgement and then their soul will be annihilated.
Based on greater things detailed in Scriptures (like only through Christ do we gain immortality) I don’t see undisputable evidence from these verses that the unsaved will be tormented for all of eternity.
Again, don’t take my word for it. Read and compare known Scripture to questionable Scripture and pray. I used to believe in an eternal punishING (just because that was what I was told) but after thorough studying, I now see that the whole of Scripture supports a punishMENT that is eternal in consequence.