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To: annalex

“Protestant style reductionism”

My apologies for making lite of your comments. There was nothing funny. It was uncharitable. And my answer to your question you surmised well: “no difference”

However, I see no “Protestant style reductionism” in anything from the Novus Ordo rites. My assumption was that many “traditionalists” DO see the Novus Ordo rites as “Protestant style reductionism” and that I DO have a problem with.

Rites have changed, slowly, but consistently since the beginning. That makes them NO LESS efficacious in terms of God’s grace imparted. The unfortunate thing with the human condition is that we can and do fall from grace easily.

The best preventative is living a life of virtue starting with the foundation of all laws, as you stated from the Orthodox site, “love of God and love of neighbor”. We can debate all day long the theological value of the “prayers of exorcism” within any of the rites pre-Novus Ordo, but none of that would be, IMO, of value without that foundation, which Christ commanded and has been stated over and over in scripture.(Jn 15:12, Rom 13:8-10, Gal 5:14, 1 Th 3:12, James 2:8)


37 posted on 01/09/2014 8:00:20 AM PST by ThomasMore (Islam is the Whore of Babylon!)
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To: ThomasMore

I cannot speak for SSPX or other distinct traditionalist communities, but from my arguments with them., many quite bitter, I know that many of them agree with us on the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass. I myself attend Novus Ordo Mass with my family, although it is not a choice I would have made alone.

Now with this background established, I absolutely agree with the Traditionalist and the Orthodox that Novus Ordo Mass is reductionist: it is an attempt to get away with the minimum of ritual while still staying valid. That is very unfortunate. Man is not a spiritual being only: we are also creatures of sensual abilities. Those are very poorly fed in the Novus Ordo Mass; and indeed, not surprisingly there was such a rich opportunity for liturgical abuse embedded in the new rite. It is not an issue of validity but of the proper formation of the entire person through the liturgy; that formation is since Vatican II lacking substance.


38 posted on 01/09/2014 5:52:14 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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