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To: ebb tide
Ah, thank you. Yes, I agree with the article in its positive part. I, too, find Nostra Aetate intentionally vague, and really inviting error.

My only disagreement is with this syllogism:

The Old Covenant … has never been revoked. This means that the goal of the conversion of the Jews is abandoned, and that their salvation as a people is embraced, setting aside forever the notion that their baptism is required.

This indeed allows some people to come down on Pope Francis as a ton of bricks each time he mentions that "never been revoked" or asks for plain civility with people of different religions. But the phrase in itself is true. The covenant with the Jews has not been revoked precisely because it has been fulfilled in the Church. We are the Israel; we have the covenant and they, the Jews should come to us.

It could be that Pope Francis is a "man of Nostra Aetate"; it could be that he is not; and it could be that he is somewhere in between. Judging by a few warm words toward the Jews, and a chance photograph in the vicinity of a menorah, -- which is our Christian obligation of charity, -- it is impossible to tell.

I also wholly agree that with the Pope his warm and loving personality tends to bubble over the top and I am sure that with time he will find a way to remain on clean doctrinal ground in his teaching.

38 posted on 01/12/2014 6:22:16 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex; Biggirl
It could be that Pope Francis is a "man of Nostra Aetate"; it could be that he is not; and it could be that he is somewhere in between. Judging by a few warm words toward the Jews, and a chance photograph in the vicinity of a menorah, -- which is our Christian obligation of charity, -- it is impossible to tell.

Well, the "chance" photograph actually shows him lighting a menorah.

And from the Catechism of Pope St Pius X (in regards to the First Commandment):

15 Q: What else does the First Commandment forbid?

A: The First Commandment also forbids all dealings with the devil, and all association with anti-Christian sects.

Now please keep in mind that I'm quoting the last Pope who has been raised to the altars, before you again accuse of me being on a anti-papist rant.

39 posted on 01/12/2014 6:56:56 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: annalex

Tell the Franciscans of the Immaculate about “warm and loving”.


40 posted on 01/12/2014 7:00:00 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: annalex
We are the Israel; we have the covenant and they, the Jews should come to us.

Agreed, but what Pope has preached this in the last 50 years?

41 posted on 01/12/2014 7:05:59 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: annalex
The covenant with the Jews has not been revoked precisely because it has been fulfilled in the Church. We are the Israel; we have the covenant and they, the Jews should come to us.

I think your apostle addressed this already: For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: [14] If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. [15] For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? [16] For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. [17] And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; [18] Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. [19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. [20] Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: [21] For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. [22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. [23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. [24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? [25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. [26] And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: [27] For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. [28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. [29] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. [30] For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: [31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. [32] For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. [33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! [34] For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller? [35] Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? [36] For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

42 posted on 01/12/2014 7:33:16 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began,)
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