Skip to comments.Traditional Latin Mass, Abortion, Homosexuality, BirthControl, BrainDead are Subjects to be Avoided
Posted on 01/11/2014 9:39:05 AM PST by mlizzy
All of us who are traditional Catholics feel strongly about what is happening in the Catholic Church. What I mean is the strong progressive, modernist agenda of telling us to be silent about the intrinsic evil of abortion, homosexual activity, birth control, divorce and modesty. This agenda is being imposed on most Catholics.
I bring this issue up, because these are extremely important moral issues that need to be addressed for the well being of our society. How can anyone ever be for the murder of the unborn babies? Any rational person, without prejudices, knows that abortion kills unborn human beings at a stage we all went through to be born. How can anyone in their right mind condone this?
But, as you have all noticed, whenever we bring up these good, sane, Catholic morals, they almost instantaneous cause negative responses. It is as if the devil gets to work instantly and hostility is manifested.
I preached about the child that was saved from abortion at Holy Mass today. Right off I have to be concerned about angry people, simply because I mentioned the “abortion” word in church. I know this because it has happened to me so many times.
Now, what I have also noticed, is that this same exact intense negative reaction also comes about as soon as you bring up anything about the Holy Latin Mass. It is almost the exact same reaction as that which comes from those who are in support of abortion, birth control, homosexual sex, immodesty and divorce.
Yet, even with this negative reaction, we still need to share the beauty and power of the Holy Latin Mass along with voicing the evil of abortion and the other serious sins that are destroying our society today.
What is it about the Holy Latin Mass that it also brings up the same sentiments in Catholics like those angry sentiments of pro abortion advocates?
I contend that it is the devil and the influence of the world on most Catholics. Just like the devil hates life and therefore promotes abortion, he also hates the Holy Latin Mass and promotes a watered down version.
We are so fortunate to know this and must get used to the same old trick of the devil, an angry response and getting in trouble. He will always have his friends to fight for the murdering of babies and getting rid of the Holy Sacred Sacrifice of the Mass. Latin and the Sacred Sacrifice of the Holy Mass destroy the power of the devil. For this reason he hates Latin and the Holy Mass.
Full title which didn’t fit: “Traditional Latin Mass, Abortion, Homosexuality, BirthControl, BrainDead are Subjects to be Avoided or Else ”
What’s the catholic church teaching on being declared brain dead?
People are taken by sorcellery and folly, turning demoralizing pain to sick pleasure in their heads because they cannot cope.
If God wanted us to just fulfill our own desires, as the modernists argue, He would never have sent prophets or scripture. The whole point of His intervention in this world is to teach us to aspire to a higher standard, rather than just follow our whims or base desires.
I have never been a member of the Catholic Church, but I agree with them on almost every major issue other than birth control. I even agree (of course) on the exceptionally grave evil of compelling others to pay for, support, or participate in abortion and birth control. Churches should not avoid controversial issues; that is where we need God’s guidance the most.
The idea that the Church should refuse to mention homosexuality, abortion, and (presumably soon if the trend continues) adultery as sins to be avoided could only appeal to Satan and to those under his influence. It’s too irrational to be justified or explained any other way.
Sorry that this is your experience. I live in the middle of a typical midwestern suburb. My parish priest talks about these issues and is wildly popular. Every Sunday we pray for respect for life from conception to natural death. My RCIA director talks about same sex attraction and abortion. The Catholic Catechism and Youcat both make it clear that those who have same sex attraction cannot act on that attraction. Etc etc. I know that I am richly blessed. All we can do is pray but you should know that there are faithful souls out here. Oh, and we don’t do the Latin Mass and people receive Holy Communion, standing, kneeling, on the tongue and in the hand. There is also a gluten free option. I know those are all issues that make people crazy but in our parish it works. We have the Precious Blood except during flu season and on Good Friday. We have all sorts of music, most of it tolerable. All in all a very good parish.
Obviously, there is debate about its specifics.
so the church would say that the soul has left the body
True, but with some very legal caveats. If you suspect that the "brain death" decision may be abused for you, or your family; simply ask that they NOT harvest the organs after death. In essence, as a legal representative of yourself, your spouse, or children, remove them from the organ donor program. The hospital cannot steal whatever they want, from a body. These organs must be collected very soon after death - otherwise, they too die and are unusable.
Good for you. Our idiot lib parish even hosted an obamacare fiesta during the sermon and the idiot priest kept harping about”everyone should have healthcare”...it’s no wonder I don’t give anything to this parish.
It's of a piece with the comment my Mama always used, "You catch more flies with honey, than with vinegar." If you get up in someone's face with anger, or pious righteousness, you WILL turn folks away, and they will be loathe to listen to your argument in the future. If you approach the subjects with humility and sadness for the loss of human life, or danger to others of a sinful lifestyle, you may get people to THINK and reason. Who knows, the Spirit might lead them to God by your obvious care for those in pain.
Perhaps you can answer this question for me: to be considered in good standing, are Roman Catholic laymen required to attend their local parish whether they like that parish or not? Or are they allowed the freedom to attend another one, i.e., if their local one is liberal, are they free to go to a more conservative one that may not be their nearest one?
They are harvested before death from a person whose bodily functions have not yet ceased, without anesthesia, and I have a moral problem with it.
There are probably a few others but the only viable body parts I know of that can be taken some time after death are corneas.
Catholics rightly so, take the mentioned resposes personally, but the prize is The USA and freedom ... not Catholicism.
A person declared Brain Dead can be removed from extra medical measures that maintain life. IE: They can be removed from life support. This allows for the natural course. Feeding tubes and hydration are not life support. External breathing and heart machines are considered life support.
I think it is real simple, and the Catholic Church is not by its lonesome, it is not unique to the Catholic Church.
17 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
If you where to read ‘Humanae Vitae’ by Pope Paul VI you would see quite clearly why the Church is against chemical birth control and see exactly how prescient that the Pope was as to the consequences of birth control on the greater society.
First of all, no one takes attendance. I don’t go to Mass within my parish boundaries. I think I asked once and whomever I asked said no problem. I get envelopes from the parish I choose.
I would personally explain to this ‘priest’ that his job is to save souls. Not worry about weather the government steals from one to better another. And since he has no worldly knowledge about health insurance and the fact that health insurance and health care are two different things I would suggest that he sticks with morals and STFU otherwise.
You can chose as to how tactful you care to be. Lots of large checks with VOID written on the front can help.
I was again praying in the Blessed Sacrament Chapel when a mother and three of her daughters wearing pretty tight pants entered. There was a young man too. They knelt and began to read the 5 minute booklet. I was just finishing up and wondered if I should say anything. I wonder if it is prudent to say anything? I wonder will it make any difference anyway?:) http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2014/01/03/a-tiny-traditional-catholic-priest-against-a-tidal-wave-of-immodesty/
Anyway I was moved to say, Good afternoon, I just want to tell you that women should wear dresses like Our Lady Mary. They look at me in surprise, but the mother said Oh and smiled. Who knows what will come of this, but I am going to try to go against the tidal wave of immodesty.
We need to tell women to dress as women and men dress as men. Let us, all in charity, help people please God. It may not have an effect for years, but truth has a way of sticking, especially when it is Gods Truth.
Some people need to be turned away. It is only when shut out that hey understand what they really want and need. In most instances these people have been ‘God is all Love” to death. God is Love. He is also all just and is not one to shy away from retribution. Either Hell is real or their is no God. What point a Heaven with no Hell?
Most of these people need to be very aggressively preached to. Most have never heard anything like it and need the jolt back into reality.
That is precisely what I have been thinking for decades.
Abortion = Devil's sacrament
New Liturgy = Acceptable to devil because while it fools 'new catholics' into thinking it's authentic, he knows it isn't the same and is a slap at God.
The problem is that sinners are hearing acceptance of sin and "no problem" while listening to this pope. Doesn't really matter whether the translations are imperfect -- they are primed to hear it that way and will always hear the honey approach that way.
There used to be set boundaries, but no longer are they enforced. Most people attend the Church that fulfills their needs.
According to whom?
True story: when I moved here, I went to the diocesan chancery to find out exactly which parish's territory I lived in. (My house is more-or-less equidistant between two Catholic churches.) I asked the secretary, "I live at [address]; can you tell me which parish I'm supposed to be in?" She looks at me in confusion and then asks: "Well, where do you go to church?" ;-)
I don’t understand your question. Brain dead according to whom? That would be according to the attending Physicians. Ability to be removed from life support? It is a rather long held and understood position of the Church that extra medical means are not required at any time to maintain life. It is not murder to allow nature to take its’ course.
That is precisely what I have been thinking for decades.Yes, it's interesting. There IS a power that comes through the Latin Mass ioo (in our opinions; dh and me) that one can readily feel, that doesn't really resonate through the Novus Ordo, unless, of course, it is respectfully conducted with Tridentine rubrics.
Surprised nobody has commented on that.
I believe it’s been extensively commented on already.
Surprised nobody has commented on that.
Seems to me the thread said something about subjects to be avoided, maybe this was one of them, oops.
I believe it’s been extensively commented on already.
The devil hates Latin.
Latn: The language of the Eurotrash impetialists who oppressed Jesus’s people. Why not Aramaic, Romeulans?
Highlighting is mine.
ARE “BRAIN DEAD” PATIENTS REALLY DEAD?
by Julie Grimstad
Pope John Paul II addressed the 18th International Congress of the Transplantation Society in 2000. His statement has been interpreted by some medical professionals involved in organ transplantation as an unconditional endorsement of their procedures. The Pope did indeed praise transplants as “a great step forward in science’s service to man” and called organ donation “a genuine act of love.” However, the address contains a number of qualifiers -- moral guidelines -- that are being misinterpreted or ignored.
Foremost among those guidelines are: the donation of organs must be “performed in an ethically acceptable manner” and “vital organs which occur singly in the body can be removed only after death, that is, from the body of someone who is certainly dead.” The Pope gave a cautious nod to using neurological (brain-related) criteria, “if rigorously applied,” for determining death. The requirement he set down was “the complete and irreversible cessation of all brain activity (in the cerebrum, cerebellum, and brain stem).”
In order for physicians to correctly claim that the Pope endorses their procedures, they must rigorously adhere to the Pope’s own guidelines. To determine with moral certainty that “complete and irreversible cessation of all brain activity” has occurred, the patient’s respiration and circulation would have to cease long enough to ensure the destruction of the entire brain. That is, the doctor would have to know that the brain has completely ceased to function, and also that the cessation is permanent. As long as an intact brain remains, there is no certainty that the brain could never recover function.
I have collected a number of accounts of patients diagnosed to be “brain dead” who have subsequently regained consciousness. Granted that these cases are rare, but they do demonstrate that irreversibility is a prediction, not an observable condition.
The Pope asks the all-important question, “When can a person be considered dead with complete certainty?” According to him, one thing physicians must find is the complete cessation of activity in the brain stem. Control of heart rate, body temperature and blood pressure are functions of the brain stem. Nevertheless, patients with these signs of life -- normal heart rate, normal temperature and normal blood pressure -- are sometimes determined to be “brain dead.” The procedures used to make this determination, therefore, would not be acceptable to the Holy Father.
There are no universally accepted medical standards for determining “brain death.” A neurologist makes a declaration of “brain death” using any one of many different sets of criteria. A person could be declared “brain dead” if one set is used, but not if another set is employed. Every transplant center agrees that death is whatever a doctor says it is.
Dr. Paul Byrne, whose articles on “brain death” have appeared in medical journals, poses this question: “It has been reported that when the incision is made to take the organs, there is an increase in heart rate and blood pressure. Could this occur if the person were dead?”
Michael Potts, head of the philosophy and religion department of Methodist College in Fayetteville, N.C., argues, “The main problem with organ donation from beating-heart, brain-dead donors is that if such donors are alive -- there is good reason to believe they are -- removing an unpaired vital organ (heart, liver) or both paired vital organs (both lungs or both kidneys) kills the patient.”
I propose informing the public that their organs may be taken when they are “almost dead” or “as good as dead,” but not certainly dead. Then, people will be able to give truly informed consent (or refusal) to organ donation. Even without such truth in advertising, many people are wary.
A Gallup Poll published in January, 1985, showed that only 17 percent of respondents had signed a donor card. Among the reasons people gave for not donating their organs were, “They might do something to me before I am really dead” and “I’m afraid the doctors might hasten my death if they needed my organs.”
When one considers vital organ transplants immoral, this does not imply a lack of sympathy for the suffering of those with failing organs. It is simply a refusal to condone evil, no matter one’s feelings. When in doubt about whether or not certain persons are alive, we must act as though they are. Ending the life of a defenseless human being for the good of another will never be morally acceptable.
Julie Grimstad served as director of the Center for the Rights of the Terminally Ill (CRTI) from 1985-2003. She is currently the executive director of Life is Worth Living, Inc., a member of Pro-Life Wisconsin’s speakers bureau, on the advisory board of Human Life Alliance, and a member of the Respect Life Committee for the Diocese of La Crosse, WI. E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org.
 Information provided by Paul A. Byrne, M.D., Clinical Professor at Medical College of Ohio, past president of the Catholic Medical Association.
 Bishop Fabian W. Bruskewitz, Bishop Robert F. Vasa, et al, “Are Organ Transplants Ever Morally Licit?” The Catholic World Report, 3/01;50-56
 Michael Potts, Ph.D., “Consciousness vs. physiology: When is death really death?” Medical Ethics Advisor, 3/03, pp. 25-36.
From your referenced material. “Nevertheless, patients with these signs of life — normal heart rate, normal temperature and normal blood pressure — are sometimes determined to be brain dead. The procedures used to make this determination, therefore, would not be acceptable to the Holy Father.”
Nothing I said contradicts this statement from the Pope.
At no time is a person who is sustained by artificial means will have normal heart rate and blood pressure as without the artificial means he would have neither a heart rate or a blood pressure.
I have intimate knowledge of the brain dead as our second son had suffered a stroke while in the hospital. We had brought him in for a viral infection he got an atrial fibrillation while being treated and we decided to disconnect his life support when it was determined that he suffered a stroke and became brain dead. There was simply no hope that he would regain consciousness.
My wife and I held him for the last time as they disconnected his life support machines. He was dead within a minute without life support.
We received plenty of counsel about the moral aspects of our decision from our parish priest and the Catholic Chaplain on staff.
I never attended a latin Mass. But I think there is a reason that you never seem to hear the folks who are way into things like abortion, priestesses and ‘gay marriage’ screaming for more latin Masses. So it’s got that going for it in my book.
Yes, you agree with the good priest, Fr. Carota. And I think I agree with the both of you. I do not hear them crying out for more Latin Masses either. If you ever get the opportunity to attend one, please do, and get back as to how you liked it. It took my husband a few Masses before he embraced them, as it’s very different, following along that is. But now, it’s like a slice of heaven, for real... :)
I think the reason is that the same reason you don’t hear about ‘liturgical puppets’ being used at latin Masses. If you care enough about it to do the latin Mass thing in the first place, no way you are going to throw a puppet show into it as well, or any other craziness.
Oh, forgive me, I wasn’t talking about you personally. I just put that piece out there for everyone’s information.
It’s true; you’re right, it’s a gorgeous, heavenly Mass (no puppets!). It seems that my husband’s work schedule will allow us to take in the Tridentine tomorrow, and we’re very much looking forward to it.
Understand abortion and other topics as big deals. Have trouble with the Latin Mass as something that will enhance Catholicism - why use a language that so few in the laity understand and which relegates it to a “hear a sound, make a sound” session? Celebrate Mass in the same vein of clarity that was fostered by the original speaking in tongues - done so all could hear and understand. Don’t do it with the present day “speaking in tongues” where nobody has a clue what them guttural noises are.
"Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccati mundi, miserere nobis. Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccati mundi, miserere nobis. Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccati mundi, dona nobis pacem.Our parish provides (in every pew) hardbound (very beautifully produced) missals with side-by-side Latin/English translations of the Mass that we always use. And the homily is done in English facing the parishioners.
"Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us. Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us. Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, grant us peace."
“I have never been a member of the Catholic Church, but I agree with them on almost every major issue other than birth control. I even agree (of course) on the exceptionally grave evil of compelling others to pay for, support, or participate in abortion and birth control. Churches should not avoid controversial issues; that is where we need Gods guidance the most.”
By the Grace of God.
You are more “Catholic” than many who CLAIM to BE Catholic.
I think some of the allure comes from the impact of the "exotic" nature of the pomp and ritualism. That can feel nice, but for me I prefer to understand every word and the context of a new mass each time vs. the rote of the ceremonial.
I remember sitting in Catholic services as a child and being torn between the rituals and being lost in the mystery. Loved the smell of the incense, but missed the meaning behind the symbolism.