Posted on 01/20/2014 7:53:11 AM PST by The Ignorant Fisherman
In orthodox (real) Baptist theology, a church is made up only of the "saved." It therefore goes without saying that any ordained Baptist minister must be "saved" as well.
By asking the question on whether King was "saved," the original poster is asking a much more profound and important question than whether King is "in Heaven." Who cares where he is? The point is that if King wasn't "saved," then he was not a real Baptist minister at all. Yet some people are so blinkered they don't seem to be able to even think of this.
Look, I'm not even a chrstian, and the obsession with the afterlife and whether or not one is "saved" is not a part of my religion at all. But I see the importance of this question, even if many of you do not.
The most fundamentalist Black chrstian in existence probably doesn't give a hoot as to whether King was an adulterer or a Communist. But he/she just might care that King "didn't believe the bible." This is the most important issue about King there is.
I simply cannot believe so many FReepers either don't care about this topic or even want to suppress discussion about it!
I agree. Thus my post on the need for all to examine King's theology papers and not just his stump speeches. As I stated there would be some shocked Baptists of all color if they reviewed what this OP offered us.
So Jesus acknowledged her sin, and didn't excuse it, or call it not sin...but as God He forgave her, contingent upon her sinning in this way no more, i.e. her repentance.
It is fascinating to me how so many post-moderns skip the forgiveness and repentance part when telling this story.
Without that the, "neither do I condemn you" makes no sense at all.
Back to the subject: There is no indication that Dr. King repented of either his adulteries, nor his disbelief in Christ as Savior and Lord.
If Jesus is God then he had the right, to forgive and say sin no more. He was without sin.
But he does not expect YOU to judge.
Denominations are not.
So someone can belong to a denomination, have membership in it, and not be saved.
And people can be saved by faith in Christ and not belong to any denomination at all.
So don't buy into the Catholic meme that if you belong to a church, you are saved.
That is not taught at all in the NT.
I understand your point that if he's not really saved, then he's not a legitimate Baptist minister. Sad to say, he probably could be credentialed if he gave all the right answers even though he wasn't saved. Wolves in sheep's clothing comes to mind.
You are correct, upon my own opinion, or puny “authority” I cannot judge. However, I certainly can discern—looking to the Word of God, who confesses Christ and who doesn’t.
It is ABSURD, that in a post above, a Christian says he simply cannot tell if Hitler was a Christian. OF COURSE HE WAS NOT!!!! Is it judgmental to say: Since he never confessed to being a Christian, AND the fruits of his life CERTAINLY showed him to be demonic....that is in the tens of millions he murdered or misled....”HITLER WAS DEFINITELY NOT A CHRISTIAN”?
Of course King is a different matter. He had some wonderful fruits: Racial justice and desegregation. That is he was a key figure in undoing one of America’s most egregious sins: Racism.
But hey, Thomas Jefferson was a key Founding Father, making America a leader in Freedom and Justice, and representative democracy. 1000 years from now, if the world endures, Jefferson will still be known as a man who greatly influenced the whole world for good. However, Jefferson...like King...in his own words, denied the deity of Christ. Jefferson, like King—and Ghandi—was not a Christian.
Does God use non-Christians to do great goods? OF COURSE. We need to be committed to truth however, and not every “good man” worldly speaking, was a Christian.
You could very well decern WRONG. or not.
As humans we may always discern wrong—which is why I freely acknowledge, God is God, and I am not.
However, to profess uncertainty—about things which God has shown certain....is accusing God of being a poor communicator—in His Word, the Bible, and that I will not do.
“Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? .... he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.” (1 John 2:22,23)
The 4 gospels were written decades after the crucifixion. At the nicene conference in 325 AD, the church cherry picked the 4 writers from a plethora of other writers including Peter and Mary Magdeline, Thomas, and even Judas Escariot. Who do YOU listen to for Gods word?
Just asking. I spent 10 years in a religious school. I have know idea of the truth except that I believe in the divinity of Christ. After that I have no idea.
That’s NO idea. Not KNOW idea. My Freudian slip is showing
Agreed - and I would add that since most of us didn't know him in a personal sense, knowing "about" him through the media lens is, generally, an inadequate substitute.
In Southern Baptist churches you cannot “join” unless you are professing faith in Christ as Lord. I don’t know about other denominations. Perhaps they do things differently. I think the Presbyterian reformed way is to assume you are until you prove you’re not, or something like that. Not trying to misrepresent anyone’s denomination here, so anyone reading this don’t jump on me. Just guessing, but I do know that one cannot join an SBC — i.e. become a member — unless one professes at the same time — faith in Christ as Lord — or by letter from another SBC church (which would be the same thing since one could not have joined THAT church unless following the same process).
True, but then what of his writings? I find it telling that he is known as much by what he did NOT say as by what he DID. He is known for his role in civil rights. Is he equally known for preaching Christ crucified? I never heard about nor read any such sermons by him. Just saying. Food for thought. His written record, however, does not engender confidence that he believed in Christ as risen Lord.
Most churches I know have the same policy, that you have to profess to be a believer in Christ.
Still, there will be those who aren’t who get in either through deception or being raised in the church they know the right lingo and think they’re saved and they’re not.
Very true, sadly.
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