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To: Salvation
I think the early Christians would recognize Catholics today, for our Mass is nearly the same as it was in the times of the Early Church fathers.

Really?????? Do you really mean that? Do you mean that everything that is said and done is nearly the same?? Really??

Perhaps the rote rituals. I don't know enough, nor really care to in order to agree with or refute that point. But I do know that Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well that now that He has come, we are to worship Him in spirit and in truth.

This did NOT happen at a packed Christmas Eve mass (SRO) in an inner city church that I attended just last month. The priest has been around for many years. He began his homily on where his hope lies. (ok, that is a good start for Christmas Eve).

But he went on to say that it is with the pope and he went on and on, often mentioning some of the most bizarre things this pope has said recently. Next, was his hope in the dioceses and the bishop. But his biggest hope? Ok, I thought - NOW he will speak of our blessed Lord. Oh, no. The biggest hope of this priest was all the people there that night. I quit counting after the guy mentioned the pope and the bishop at least 30 times. He also mentioned how he was glad to embrace homosexuals and they were also his hope. He mentioned the name of Jesus ONE time. Just one. And that was to end his homily "in Jesus's name".

The early Christians "might" have recognized the smells and bells but they would have been appalled at the words as much I was. There was no worshipping the advent of Christ Jesus in Spirit and in Truth. None. The early Christians would have thought they were in a pagan temple. I did.

The saddest thing of all was that the mass of people seemed to just be fine with all of it. :(

42 posted on 01/23/2014 5:26:08 AM PST by lupie
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To: lupie
The early Christians "might" have recognized the smells and bells but they would have been appalled at the words as much I was. There was no worshipping the advent of Christ Jesus in Spirit and in Truth. None. The early Christians would have thought they were in a pagan temple. I did.

You experienced a bad homily by a confused priest. How does that diminish the essence of the Mass?

The saddest thing of all was that the mass of people seemed to just be fine with all of it. :(

How do you know?

43 posted on 01/23/2014 5:30:07 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: lupie

They were supposed to throw rocks?


49 posted on 01/23/2014 9:09:40 AM PST by RobbyS (quotes)
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To: lupie; daniel1212
The early Christians "might" have recognized the smells and bells but they would have been appalled at the words as much I was. There was no worshipping the advent of Christ Jesus in Spirit and in Truth. None. The early Christians would have thought they were in a pagan temple. I did.

Below is the communion or Lord's Supper in accordance to the Didache (Estimated Range of Dating: 50-120 A.D.) which is the earliest artifact we have of what early early Christians were practicing:

CHAPTER 9 THE THANKSGIVING SACRAMENT 1) Now concerning the Thanksgiving meal, give thanks in this manner. 2) First, concerning the cup: We thank You, our Father, For the Holy Vine of David Your servant, Whom You made known to us through Your Servant; May the glory be Yours forever. 3) Concerning the broken bread: We thank You, our Father, For the life and knowledge Which You made known to us through Your Servant; May the glory be Yours forever. As this broken bread was scattered over the mountains, And was gathered together to become one, So let Your Body of Faithful be gathered together From the ends of the earth into Your kingdom; for the glory and power are Yours forever. 5) But let no one eat or drink of your Thanksgiving, unless they have been baptized; for concerning this is taught, "Do not give what is holy to dogs."

CHAPTER 10 PRAYER AFTER COMMUNION 1) After the meal, give thanks in this manner: 2) We offer thanks, Holy Father, For Your Holy Name which fills our hearts, And for the knowledge, faith and eternal life, You made known to us through Your Servant; Yours is the glory forever. 3) Almighty Master, You created all things for Your own purpose; You gave men food and drink to enjoy, That they might give You thanks; But to us You freely give spiritual food and drink, And eternal life through Your Servant. 4) Foremost, we thank You because You are mighty; Yours is the glory forever. 5) Remember Your Body of Servants, To deliver it from everything evil And perfect it according to Your love, And gather it from the four winds, Sanctified for Your kingdom which You have prepared for it; For the power and glory are Yours forever. 6) Let Your grace come, And let this world pass away. Hosanna to the God of David! May all who are holy, come; Let those who are not, repent. Maranatha. Amen. 7)But permit the prophets to make Thanksgiving as they wish.(http://web.archive.org/web/20101009033540/http://ivanlewis.com/Didache/didache.html)

As the 'old commerical' says "you make the call." I see a simple assembly of God fearing believers who based the document on Scriptures.

We also know during this same timeframe, if the earlier date range the apostles were still around. If the later date range we know someone in Polycarp was still around. In Polycarp's epistle to the Philippians we see a solid use and knowledge of what we call the NT canon today. Polycarp's epistle is in the date range of 110-140 A.D. This is an important period, because we hear a lot about a large time duration happened to figure out the NT canon. However, looking at Polycarp's (served under John the apostle) epistle, we see none of the spurious "gospels" or "books" quoted the later church fathers refuted and dismissed. Which leads to the conclusion, that those who were of the faith knew the true apostolic writings because they heard the Voice of Good Sheperd in the Gospels of John, Luke, Matthew and Mark but not in Thomas and others. Below is a link to a site which lists in detail the NT books Polycarp quotes in his epistle:

Polycarp and the NT

50 posted on 01/23/2014 10:10:22 AM PST by redleghunter
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