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To: NKP_Vet

We can say that Vatican II changed things.

Prior to Vatican II, “religious freedom” to Catholics meant only the right to be Catholic. Hence, non-Catholics could be compelled to be Catholics but not visa versa. Through the 19th Century, the Catholics supported monarchs in France and elsewhere against Protestants and secularists. Even in the 20th Century, the Catholics supported dictatorial rulers in Spain and elsewhere against the radical left-wing.

But, this intolerance wasn’t unique to Catholicism. Lutheranism taught that only the princes of the world had religious freedom. In our own country’s history, and in England prior to the Founding, there were established religions. Most of the colonies had established religions; congregational in New England, Episcopalian in the South, with tolerance famously the rule only in certain places (e.g., Pennsylvania and Rhode Island). We might associated religious tolerance first with Holland; then, with the movement for disestablishment among the dissenters and free-thinkers such as our own James Madison and Thomas Jefferson.

In contrast to the Enlightenment, Classical Liberal view, the opposite view has been that of an anti-clerical state. Thus, the embrace of this aspect (religious tolerance) of Enlightenment thinking by the Catholics in Vatican II might be viewed merely as an attempt to make an alliance with conservative Protestants and secularist liberals, to prevent the anti-clerical, radical left from ascending to power and attacking the Catholics.

Thus it could be said, the Catholics, to include Pope Francis, tread on thin ice by repeatedly attacking neo-liberalism, calling it the new tyranny and calling them idol worshippers. It really should be embarrassing to somebody adorned with as many icons as are Catholics to call others idol worshippers. (Jesus says judge not lest ye be judged.) As anybody who looks will see, this Pope captivates the radical left-wing of the world. We will see who converts whom when it comes to the social teachings and sacred traditions of the Catholic Church.

Anyway, in the modern era, the radical left finds religion to be useful to the state. Thus liberal Protestantism is now coming to be embraced by progressive socialists, just as the Nazis fomented a perverted religion to substitute for the traditional religions of the country. We saw this marriage of religion and progressive socialism in the “Social Gospel” movement at the turn of the 19th into the 20th century. The project was put on hold when everything progressive became embarrassed by the Nazi experience. But all that is history now. So much water under the bridge. And, not so much forgotten as never known to those who are alive today. Pope Francis makes it appear that the Catholics will join with liberal Protestants in openly embracing the Social Gospel of redistributionism.


3 posted on 02/05/2014 7:54:52 AM PST by Redmen4ever
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To: Redmen4ever

“Pope Francis makes it appear that the Catholics will join with liberal Protestants in openly embracing the Social Gospel of redistributionism”

He will be no different than JP2 or B16. The Catholic Church is the only faith in the world that will never allow homosexual “marriage”, abortion, contraception or women priests. His thinking on economics (which is not infallible), is the same the two most recent popes. Nothing “liberal” at all about Francis and the Catholic haters will find that out soon enough.


6 posted on 02/05/2014 11:51:33 AM PST by NKP_Vet ("I got a good Christian raisin', and 8th grade education, aint no need ya'll treatin' me this way")
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To: Redmen4ever

Catholicism was excluded from John Locke’s “Letter Concerning Tolerance” since followers of the Roman Catholic religion owe their first allegiance to a “foreign prince”—their religion over their patriotism, their God over their country. Statism is the love of State, not the love of God, and that was John Locke in a nutshell.


7 posted on 02/05/2014 12:04:15 PM PST by NKP_Vet ("I got a good Christian raisin', and 8th grade education, aint no need ya'll treatin' me this way")
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To: Redmen4ever

Appreciate your thoughtful posit.


8 posted on 02/05/2014 2:06:03 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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