Posted on 02/17/2014 2:47:09 PM PST by SeekAndFind
It’s intrinsically sexist.
It’s not diverse.
That's it? That's a terrible counter-argument.
Frankly, without using the Bible, I don't think there really is much of a counter-argument. However, if one doesn't give a damn what the Bible says about this topic (or any other one), then it's also a terrible counter-argument. Since so few in this country seem to care about the Bible or God, it stands to reason why we're losing on this issue rather handily, and, I believe, will continue to do so.
The very act exceeds design tolerances. Only a moron would engage in a continual act that results in self destruction in the short term.
Short summary: Mental disorder.
Really? Mental illness is not bad in itself? Aids is not a bad thing? Other diseases are not bad things? Disintegration of society morals is not a bad thing?
I agree. When we use the bible or religion as the main source of evidence to back an argument, I think we lose because political correctness has indoctrinated people shut off and not listen. We’re just a bunch of stupid bible pounders after all.
When trying to wake people up, I think we need to talk in secular terms to argue our points. And unfortunately on the gay issue we don’t have much of a non religious argument.
Well, there’s at least ONE culturally important “problem”.
You’ll find it mentioned in this short video:
WOMAN’S LIB AND ISLAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0cS4p9cFlo&feature=c4-overview&list=UUFDlhK80EdO28R-iGTXiGaw
But it's a classic case of people not seeing what they don't want to see.
Read Genesis 38 up through verse 26 to see how YHvH made it whole. The story of Onan has only to do with his failing to obey YHvH's
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
levitical marriage( Deuteronomy 25:5-6) i.e. marrying his brothers's
widow in order to provide progeny.
While not perfect, I thought this was a pretty good article. It’s not exhaustive - but states some good points. I think the author would agree with the posts here stating all the bad things that go along with the homosexual life style - and how destructive that life style is. But I think what he meant by saying, “The question of why homosexuality is bad in itself is not easy to answer,” is that our current culture would not find these arguments enough (at least, I hope that’s what is going on). The Bible does seem to indicate that some sins are worse than others (those done with the body vs those done without, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit). But the unregenerate human heart, separated from a living relationship with the Creator, will pervert one or more of the human appetites with destructive consequences. James talks a lot about this. Romans seems to teach that God punishes sin with more sin. If you do not repent after some warnings/time, he allows you to go deeper and deeper into it. Next, seems to be the giving over to a depraved mind and heart. At some point, and I don’t know where that is, you are beyond repentance and given over to a depraved mind and heart. At that place, no argument from Scripture or the medical community or any other source will change your mind. Like Sodom, destruction and judgement are all that are left. Welcome to the new America. I’m afraid that’s where we are as a nation or at least headed strongly in that direction. The Scriptures warns about a time in the Last Days when men will no longer listen to sound doctrine but will heap unto themselves teachers that will teach what their itching ears long to hear. Are we there yet? I think we are.
"What he DID was evil in the sight of the Lord, and He killed him."
"It is a horrible thing to pour out seed besides the intercourse of man and woman. Deliberately avoiding the intercourse, so that the seed drops on the ground, is double horrible. For this means that one quenches the hope of his family and kills the son, which could be expected, before he is born. This wickedness is now as severely as is possible condemned by the Spirit, through Moses, that Onan, as it were, through a violent and untimely birth, tore away the seed of his brother out the womb, and as cruel as shamefully has thrown on the earth. Moreover he thus has, as much as was in his power, tried to destroy a part of the human race. When a woman in some way drives away the seed out the womb, through aids, then this is rightly seen as an unforgivable crime. Onan was guilty of a similar crime" (Calvin's Commentary on Genesis, vol. 2, part 16).
and this...
"[T]he exceedingly foul deed of Onan, the basest of wretches . . . is a most disgraceful sin. It is far more atrocious than incest and adultery. We call it unchastity, yes, a sodomitic sin. For Onan goes in to her—that is, he lies with her and copulates—and, when it comes to the point of insemination, spills the semen, lest the woman conceive. Surely at such a time the order of nature established by God in procreation should be followed. Accordingly, it was a most disgraceful crime. . . . Consequently, he deserved to be killed by God. He committed an evil deed. Therefore, God punished him" (Luther's Commentary on Genesis)
The Protestant scholar Charles Provan listed over a hundred Protestant founders or leaders in every major wing of (Lutheran, Calvinist, Reformed, Methodist, Presbyterian, Anglican, Evangelical, Nonconformist, Baptist, Puritan, Pilgrim) who condemned the use of contraception, calling it a sinful act (Provan, 1989, The Bible and Birth Control). Why the change in Protestant Biblical interpretation over the last 80 years or so?
Both dreary kinds of unnatural sex --- gay intercourse and contracepted intercourse---- are being justified by the same form of erroneous argument: a rejection of Natural Law so that we don't draw the line at unnatural forms of intercourse; and a relativizing of Scripture so that its teachings are not applied to the deviancies accepted by ourselves and our friends in our particular milieu..
“...Onan...”
He had vaginal sex with his brother’s wife (his brother died and he was supposed to be her husband and get her pregnant with a male child), but if he did he would lose all his brother’s possessions because she could leave with all the livestock brought with her plus all that had been born since. So he withdrew and ejaculated upon the floor. His sin was disobedience to the law, depriving her of her freedom and greed.
For one thing, the human race would die out. I figure that’s a point that both the religious and the non-religious can agree upon.
RE: For one thing, the human race would die out.
Well, the gays will tell you that with artificial insemination technology, surrogate motherhood and adoption, that need not happen ( Not that I support their lifestyle, but still... )
God certainly gave us the sacrament of marriage to keep us “safer”, less sinfull, whatever you want to call it. A faithfull marriage keeps you good, children really give you a greater sense of motivation and reason to be responsible.
I have seen too many otherwise good decent men, simply unable to have committed relationships because they have been single too long. They become jaded, selfish, have habits contrary to a committed relationship.
I’m sure the same applies to women. Throw in porn and you have a BIG problem. Sex addiction is an epidemic. Many men who finally get treatment are concerned with the fact that they loathe homosexuality but it becomes the only thing that does the job.
Homosexuality is full of sex addiction, drugs, dysfunction, abuse, and a non stop party lifestyle. The nice little homosexual couple is a myth. I have NEVER heard a homosexual couple grow old together.
So from what I have seen, God was right all along. Any sexual deviance hetero or homo is a slippery slope. Porn is a serious addiction and is devastating families.
Please read the entire chapter for understanding. YHvH has no ordinance against contraception If you rip a verse out of context and torture
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
it long enough it will yield anything you wish.
except be "fruitful and multiply".
One was a sin of omission (what Onan didn't do): he didn't impregnate Tamar. This was selfishness and disobedience.
The other was an act of commission (what he DID do): he perverted the act of intercourse by an intentional act of contraception.
Scripture says that "What he DID was evil in the sight of God, and so He killed him."
There is another provision known as halizah (Deuteronomy 25:9-10), which decrees that if a man refuses to carry out this duty, the woman must spit in his face -- in the presence of the town elders --- and remove one of his shoes. He is then to be called "this shoeless one'. This shows that a brother-in-law could opt out of Levirate marriage, and suffer no more than a public shaming.
In other words, mere failure to carry out the Levirate duty did not entail the dealth penalty --- far from it.
What aroused God's wrath was that other thing Onan did: performed a perverted act of contraception.
And that was how all of Christianity --- Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant --- saw it until the Anglicans approved contraception at their decennial Lambeth Conference in 1930.
Was all of Christendom wrong for almost 2 millennia, until God vouchsafed to the Anglicans in 1930 that, really, He was OK with what Onan did?
The significance of this is explained here: #38
Thank you.
The text has to be read carefully. Genesis 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.. What you are suggesting is that since Onan withdrew in time so that Tamar could not conceive, that means that the very same identical act is always a sinful one in all circumstances. I don’t believe that you can read that into the text. The act that Onan withdrew from was related to a very specific provision made referred to as the Levirate Law…this special provision is found in Deuteronomy 25:5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her. 6. And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel. The sin here is very simply that Onan refused to obey the law, God knew why and as it states, He was displeased and killed Onan.
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