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Legal Workaround to Labor Forced by Homosexual Privilege

Posted on 02/27/2014 12:52:33 PM PST by Talisker

I believe I have developed a simple, yet effective workaround to the new powers our government has handed homosexuals - specifically, the ability to force people to do labor against their religious beliefs (I never in a million years thought I would write such a sentence in America).

The solution is to identify the specific kind of issues over which homosexuals are likely to invoke their involuntary servitude powers, and separate those issues into a private Christian club.

An example: Christian bakeries would now put up a sign stating that they no longer make wedding cakes. Any wedding cakes, for anybody. They make all sorts of other cakes, including birthday cakes, but not wedding cakes - even for Christians.

Then, they would advertise a separate, private business: the Christian Wedding Cake Club. It would take a nominal fee to join ( say, five bucks), and also require the person to be a member in good standing of an affiliated Christian Church - one that has already been vetted and accepted into the club. Then, for those members only, the bakery would make and sell Christian wedding cakes.

There would be no hiding here - the purpose of the club would specifically be to make wedding cakes only for certain people affiliated with certain churces of a certain religious tradition. But those people would all have to join the club to get their cakes. And all of the members of the church would not have to join, and people who wanted a wedding cake would not have to join until they wanted their special wedding cake.

This is completely legal, and takes very little time to set up. All a Christian baker would have to do is call around to various pastors and confirm the “type” of Christianity they practice, let them know what the club is, and exchange confirmation letters. The actual club itself would be informal and non-profit.

That’s it. And it would also help with advertising, and there could be special discounts and sales at times for members of the club - whatever. And it can be done with any type of business, and any number of churches, and can even be run from the Web.

The principle here is that the bakery would be serving the needs of the club - and the club would need wedding cakes for its duly admitted Christian members. That way, nothing associated with wedding cakes would have anything to do with being “open to the public,” nor the general sales of the bakery.

In the Sherlock Holmes story “The Blue Carbuncle,” one of the characters puts up a coin every week at his local pub so that come Christmas, he can afford a goose. The pub runs a “goose club” for this purpose. You cannot come into the pub and buy a goose unless you are a member of the goose club. This is the same idea.

To get rid of this method, the government would have to get rid of private clubs altogether. I’m not saying they won’t try, since homosexuality now seems to be superior to the entirety of the Constitution. Nevertheless, until then, this is a clear, safe and easy way to refuse to comply with this new totalitarianism while staying completely legal.

And, of course, if a homosexual is a member in good standing in one of the affiliated Christian churches, they too can have a wedding cake made for them. So it’s all perfectly fair.


TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: businesses; homosexualagenda
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1 posted on 02/27/2014 12:52:33 PM PST by Talisker
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To: Talisker

High and outside...strike three.

Nice try.


2 posted on 02/27/2014 12:56:58 PM PST by Ouderkirk (To the left, everything must evidence that this or that strand of leftist theory is true)
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To: Ouderkirk
"Juuuuust a bit outside."


3 posted on 02/27/2014 1:02:00 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ("The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." - George Orwell)
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To: Talisker

There is a first amendment right to share your faith. In keeping with that, a bakery could simply print selected scriptures on their cake boxes that point out the unbiblical nature of homosexuality.

If the homosexual “couple” disagreed with the printing on the boxes, well that’s just too bad.


4 posted on 02/27/2014 1:02:07 PM PST by SeaHawkFan
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To: Ouderkirk
High and outside...strike three.

Nice try.

Oh look, a Democrat.

You have anything other than a bumper sticker? Because I'm not seeing any level of intelligent critique from you at all. Let alone legal, social or religious analysis.

Unless, of course, you think COSTCO should let in people who aren't members.

5 posted on 02/27/2014 1:03:56 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: SeaHawkFan
There is a first amendment right to share your faith. In keeping with that, a bakery could simply print selected scriptures on their cake boxes that point out the unbiblical nature of homosexuality.

If the homosexual “couple” disagreed with the printing on the boxes, well that’s just too bad.

How is that different from the homosexual couple knowing that the baker doesn't want to make the cake for them in the first place? Your solution doesn't solve the problem.

The issue is how NOT to sell to people who want you to make something that violates your faith, given the recent court rulings and laws in this area.

What I propose solves that problem.

6 posted on 02/27/2014 1:06:40 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker

Even with this “roundabout solution” you have proposed, there would be “Christian churches” which would allow homosexual weddings and let the homosexuals join the “Christian cake club”. It would be just one more opportunity for those promoting the gay agenda to get some press, showing how they are so persecuted by the rest of us.


7 posted on 02/27/2014 1:08:30 PM PST by NEMDF
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
"Juuuuust a bit outside."

How is this "outside"?

Millions of Christians are furious over this violation of their religion. I have proposed a solution. You have declared it has a flaw. What is that flaw?

Hey, you can post a mocking picture. Surely you can also explain the flaw that backs it up.

Go ahead. Explain.

8 posted on 02/27/2014 1:09:05 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker

No the way around it is do like the Jew’s did in the days of the inquisition when Jew’s weren’t permitted to own business and were overcharged at the “lawful” businesses. They created an entire underground economy. One Jew might bake bread and trade it to another Jew who made clothes, then trade the clothes to another Jew who had grain. Thereby circumventing the entire tax structure and economy. Then were so successful that the “lawful” businesses were losing so much business that petitioned to get the laws repealed.


9 posted on 02/27/2014 1:10:11 PM PST by apillar
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To: NEMDF
Even with this “roundabout solution” you have proposed, there would be “Christian churches” which would allow homosexual weddings and let the homosexuals join the “Christian cake club”. It would be just one more opportunity for those promoting the gay agenda to get some press, showing how they are so persecuted by the rest of us.

No, the baker runs the club.

And the baker only allows churches in that conform to his or her Christian beliefs.

If those beliefs deny marriage to homosexuals, then no affiliated church will be a church that will marry homosexuals. Therefore, no homosexual will be a member in good standing of that church, and therefore they will not be allowed to be a member of the club.

You see, the baker isn't denying wedding cakes to homosexuals. He's providing wedding cakes to members of the club - and the members of the club have to also be member in good standing of an affiliated church.

So how is a member in good standing in a church that doesn't marry homosexuals going to want a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding? The very request would violate the beliefs of the associated church, and thereby identify them as not in good standing with that church - and that would be verified by the pastor or priest.

Look, the idea is not to stop homosexuals from buying wedding cakes. The idea is to prevent homosexuals from being able to force people to make them wedding cakes against their religious beliefs. The difference is gigantic.

10 posted on 02/27/2014 1:16:29 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker

I similarly thought of churches who do not wish to marry gay people will have to stop marrying just anybody who turns up at their door. They will have to revert to only marrying people in good standing within the church - this means they would need to be regular attendees and hold true to the stated beliefs of that church. For too long anyway have many young couples used the church as a nice photo back drop for their particular nuptials without being even associated with the church.


11 posted on 02/27/2014 1:17:23 PM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: Ouderkirk

We dont have freedom of choice to do with our bodies as we plaese.

We must bake the cake!

Create a brand name such as Halal.

Refined™

Make it known that the cakes use Holy water and have been prayed over by Christians.

Also Christians need to hire gay owned businesses to print brochures for Conversion Therapy.

First ones that refuse- wham law suit!


12 posted on 02/27/2014 1:20:21 PM PST by NoLibZone (The bad news: Hillary Clinton will be the next President. The Good news: Our principles are intact.)
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To: apillar
No the way around it is do like the Jew’s did in the days of the inquisition when Jew’s weren’t permitted to own business and were overcharged at the “lawful” businesses. They created an entire underground economy. One Jew might bake bread and trade it to another Jew who made clothes, then trade the clothes to another Jew who had grain. Thereby circumventing the entire tax structure and economy. Then were so successful that the “lawful” businesses were losing so much business that petitioned to get the laws repealed.

No. Your way requires an avoidance of the tax structure - which is illegal.

It also sneaks around in the dark.

My way is open and aboveboard, allows bakers (or whomever) to advertise they are Christians, and not violate tax laws. And that openness is extremely important, because it brings the idea of religious freedom right into customer's faces, where it needs to be.

The idea is not to hide in America - it's to RESTORE America, and that takes openness, not hiding.

13 posted on 02/27/2014 1:20:34 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker
No. Your way requires an avoidance of the tax structure - which is illegal.

Fine by me. I no longer care about the laws of this ungodly nation, when they start infringing on my religous liberties and my right to earn a living, I feel no obligation to play by their rulebook any longer.

14 posted on 02/27/2014 1:22:52 PM PST by apillar
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To: melsec

You make a good point. Many couples get married at the church of the parents of the bride or groom. This can often be a church that the child has not attended recently or ever.

As then, one or both of the couple is not a member, how can a church refuse to serve another “couple” that just shows up.

Gay weddings all around, for everyone. Its just a fun time. < /snark >


15 posted on 02/27/2014 1:23:43 PM PST by KC Burke (Officially since Memorial Day they are the Gimmie-crat Party.ha)
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To: Talisker

Or you could just realize you’re in the cake making business and stop whining and worrying about what people are doing around the cake. Really this whole kerfuffle is idiocy pretending to be principal, make the cake, get their money, move on with your life. Or if you really really don’t want to, lie, tell them your booked, and move on with your life. Once you decide you need to approve of your customers you’ve opened up a can of worms that leads to no good at all.


16 posted on 02/27/2014 1:27:33 PM PST by discostu (I don't meme well.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

How do they lay of pitches that close?


17 posted on 02/27/2014 1:29:18 PM PST by mykroar (We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again. - Nathanael Greene)
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To: apillar
Fine by me. I no longer care about the laws of this ungodly nation, when they start infringing on my religous liberties and my right to earn a living, I feel no obligation to play by their rulebook any longer.

Then leave the country.

The American process is to use the tools the Founders gave us to fight back against tyranny. Elections and laws and all the other methods.

People like you shoot of their mouths and try to foment rebellion, while you carefully go to work and pay your taxes and watch your speed limit when driving. Your hypocrisy is rank.

In addition, your frustration comes from laziness. You've decided that you will only learn so much, and go no farther. You will not exert yourself to learn more about the law - no, that's too much trouble. Instead, you'll just try to incite other people to rebellion, while you sit back and eat popcorn and see who wins. You're pathetic.

People need to learn the law deeper and better than they ever have. Americans need to grow the hell up, and learn HOW their country is being changed away from freedom - how the laws actually work. People like you, who try to block that learning, don't deserve this country or its freedoms.

18 posted on 02/27/2014 1:29:40 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker

Oh, I’m going to get mesothelioma for sure, but I am putting on my asbestos dress for this one:

ONE REASON CONSERVATIVES CANT REACH THE MIGHTY LOW INFO VOTERS IS that often we are seen exactly like the left, pushing our beliefs onto others.

Let’s remember. This country was founded on freedom to worship — nay, LIVE, -— as we wish. Just sell your cakes, seat people at your restaurant, fix people’s cars, rent out your apartments. BELIEVE ME, your customers and tenants will ALL BE SINNERS. None of your business. The Bible lists a lot of sins that are worse than sexual behavior, including lying and gossiping and cheating people.

We as a conservative, return to the Constitution movement would be best pursuing one mindedly that purpose, not refusing to treat or serve people whose sins are more apparent.

Or else change your line of work to one where you don’t deal with the public at all.


19 posted on 02/27/2014 1:33:27 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: Talisker
I think your idea has merit. I especially like that it is completely out in the open.

I have two questions: Would it still allow businesses that supply the wedding industry to stay in business? The percentage of business that bakers do for weddings might be relatively small. However, I imagine that florists make a lot of money off weddings. If most of the dues from a Christian Wedding Flowers Club don't end up in the hand of the florist then he might go out of business anyways. And if most of the club dues end up in his hands then there might be cause for the feds to decide it really isn't a club.

Also if your idea is workable for bakers & florists, is there a way it can be adapted for organizations that own property and need to rent it out in order to pay for the property taxes, etc.?

For example, a chapter of The Knights of Columbus that rents their hall out for wedding receptions, etc. Is there any hope that a similar strategy like yours could allow them to continue to host anything from bingo nights to wedding receptions without having to host gay receptions? I don't think those organizations could keep their properties if they only rented it out to club members and their associated friends and acquaintances.

20 posted on 02/27/2014 1:35:38 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Talisker

The Judges and the lawyer arguing the issue have it all wrong - its not a civil-rights issue. When one asks the state for permission and a license to do something its a privilege not a right. One does not ask permission of the state and get a license to exercise a right. A marriage license falls into the same genre as drivers licenses, businesses licenses etc. A marriage license can be issued and revoked like any other privilege.

Accordingly, since it never was a rights’ issue the 14th does not apply any more then it does with driver’s licenses.


21 posted on 02/27/2014 1:37:55 PM PST by Mechanicos (When did we amend the Constitution for a 2nd Federal Prohibition?)
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To: discostu
Or you could just realize you’re in the cake making business and stop whining and worrying about what people are doing around the cake. Really this whole kerfuffle is idiocy pretending to be principal, make the cake, get their money, move on with your life. Or if you really really don’t want to, lie, tell them your booked, and move on with your life. Once you decide you need to approve of your customers you’ve opened up a can of worms that leads to no good at all.

The 1st Amendment religious freedom argument is obvously lost on you. You're not even up to speed on the actual issues!

What you advocate is either throwing away personal religious principles, or living a life of lying - and you're recommending these things with exasperated trivialization and contempt. On a conservative website? Really?

Approving of customers is done every day, in every way. You think you should be given a job just because you show up? Or does a business have a right to approve of you? You think just because someone is a potential customer, they are beyond any approval requirement from any privately-owned business?

So to you, commerce is God? Open a business, and that's it - you have to do whatever anyone wants? And you cannot decide on the limits of your own business, your own work, or live by your own religious principles?

You're not even American. I don't know what you are.

22 posted on 02/27/2014 1:38:35 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker

Hear, hear.


23 posted on 02/27/2014 1:43:30 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: discostu

“Or if you really really don’t want to, lie.”

There’s good advice for folks standing on religious principles.

Sorry, I rarely do this, but you are an idiot.


24 posted on 02/27/2014 1:43:55 PM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: Talisker

Look, the idea is not to stop homosexuals from buying wedding cakes. The idea is to prevent homosexuals from being able to force people to make them wedding cakes against their religious beliefs. The difference is gigantic.


Making cakes is not against anyone’s religious beliefs. For example, I could make a cake out of seafood, with whipped cream and beef frosting. I could make such a cake. I just could not eat it myself because it wouldn’t be kosher.

Traditional religious people are stunned and sad that society has now accepted homosexuality as normal and also legitimized weddings for homosexual couples. It is a shock. People don’t like it and it isn’t something you can get used to, like painting a red building blue.

However, the Christian baker who makes cakes every day may have, just yesterday, sold a birthday cake to a man who cheats his business partner. This morning he may have sold a cupcake to a woman who poisoned her husband. He has sold every cake he’s made in the last 13 years to a sinner. Many of them unrepentant and sinning further. He’s sold to Jews, Muslims, atheists, and maybe a satanist* or two.

We can’t be choosing which sins stop us from business intercourse.

* so funny: above, I typed satanist on my ipad and apple corrected it to statist. Kinda the same thing! :)


25 posted on 02/27/2014 1:44:09 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: Yaelle
ONE REASON CONSERVATIVES CANT REACH THE MIGHTY LOW INFO VOTERS IS that often we are seen exactly like the left, pushing our beliefs onto others. ...Just sell your cakes, seat people at your restaurant, fix people’s cars, rent out your apartments. ...Or else change your line of work to one where you don’t deal with the public at all.

No, we don't reach voters because RINOs like YOU misrepresent the message - on purpose, specifically in order to make it seem that we are pushing our beliefs on others, when exactly the opposite is true.

The bakers would "sell cakes" to homosexuals. They just drew the line at WEDDING cakes, because a WEDDING cake is a RELIGIOUS thing to them. That is the SINGLE issue here.

And, of course, there's nothing religious about seating people at restaurants, fixing cars, or renting apartments - you add all those in to confuse the issue and make this thing sound like the discrimination blacks received in the South. You did that on purpose, as a lie, in order to confuse the very people you claim to not want to confuse.

And your alternative is pure Leftism - surrender, or get out of business altogether.

Go back to DU.

26 posted on 02/27/2014 1:45:55 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker

What you advocate is either throwing away personal religious principles, or living a life of lying - and you’re recommending these things with exasperated trivialization and contempt. On a conservative website? Really?

Approving of customers is done every day, in every way.


Seriously? Jesus didn’t only work with the righteous.

It is not in keeping with religious principles to only work for perfect people.


27 posted on 02/27/2014 1:47:38 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: Talisker

Not at all. But I also understand practicality. If you’re a business open to the public some of your customers WILL be gay, period. Even at the lowest estimates of their population any kind of successful business is looking at at least a couple of gay customers every day. If you don’t want to deal with them don’t have a business open to the public. You’re free to have your religion all you want, but you need to deal with certain meathook realities too.

Not advocating throwing away any principle. There is no principle that says you have to agree with your customers’ lifestyle. I’m recommending not looking for hassles in this world. If you’re in the wedding cake business you’ve been dealing with gays constantly anyway, just which team did you think the male wedding planners played for? Now all of a sudden it’s a problem if the wedding planners get married, really? How were you handling atheists getting married? They’re violating your rules just as much as the gays.

Smart businesses don’t approve or disapprove of their customers. Businesses exist to make money, you want to get in the personal approval business start a church. Who said anything about getting a job just because you show up? That’s you adding stupid content to make a strawman. Customers != prospective employees.

I don’t have commerce as God, as have commerce as the point of business. You start a business to make money, period. If the goal is not making money start something else.

I’m a lot more American than you, for one thing I actually know that the first amendment has nothing to do with this situation.


28 posted on 02/27/2014 1:49:58 PM PST by discostu (I don't meme well.)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

The issue is in the creation of private clubs made for specific purposes. This is done all the time. Even in the corporate world, you can have a parent company with all sorts of associated companies that do specific things. And just because someone deals with one associated company, doesn’t mean they can deal with any other associated company.

Well, the same thing can be done with clubs. Yes, there are laws about what a club is and isn’t. Mainly the club has to stick to its proclaimed purpose, and not be used as a cover for something else. That’s why being up front abot this is so important. As for the money, again, if the money is for the stated purpose, everything is fine.

And this shouldn’t affect competition at all - the same people are buying the same things for the same purposes in the same marketplace. Some are doing it through clubs, some are not. The public is free to choose what they want to do.

This is nothing but a buyer’s club that serves certain churches. You don’t have to join a church or believe a certain religion to “get in.” It’s the reverse of that. If you’re alread IN these churches, then you can make use of the club.


29 posted on 02/27/2014 1:52:44 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker

Ad hominem attacks on me means you don’t have much of an argument.

I am not a RINO. Not a leftist. Not from DU. Not even a liar. Four attacks in a short post, bravissimo.

I thought the proposed law was that businesses couldn’t discriminate due to sexual orientation. So I threw the businesses in where you would see that the people might be gay. I wasn’t lying.

And, once more, baking cakes is NOT a religious thing.

And you are supposed to gently draw in new Christians by good deeds. Do like In and Out does, in your bakery: put the bible verse numbers you wish your customers to read onto your paper goods and cake boxes. Harmless advocacy.


30 posted on 02/27/2014 1:53:36 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: discostu

Nicely said.


31 posted on 02/27/2014 1:54:44 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: RinaseaofDs

They’re not actually standing on religious principles. If they were standing on religious principles they’d remember they’re supposed to love the sinner and not get their panties in a bunch because the cake is going to be eaten during a ceremony they don’t approve of.

Any idiots here are the ones thinking refusing to bake a cake is religious principle. It’s grandstanding idiocy.


32 posted on 02/27/2014 1:56:11 PM PST by discostu (I don't meme well.)
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To: Yaelle

This has nothing whatsoever to do with only working for perfect people.

This has to do with protecting people’s RIGHT to live THEIR religion as THEY SEE FIT.

Are you going to argue that a Muslim should serve pork at their restaurant? Are you going to tell them thay they are not being relistic, or approoriate as Muslims?

Yet you feel perfectly able to tell Christians the limits and standards of Christianity.

You should write your own Bible - clear up this mess. The Word According to Yaelle. Then Christians will know what to do, and won’t have to ive their own lives in their own way. Hell, we could get rid of the entire religious freedom part of the 1st Amendment. After all, who needs it, when we have YOU to tell everyone what to do?


33 posted on 02/27/2014 1:56:57 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker

These things will have to be taken head on,
because any “workaround” that you propose will be stomped on by the homos and the State.

You have to remember that their goal is the criminalization of Christianity and respond appropriately.


34 posted on 02/27/2014 1:59:13 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Talisker

The “flaw” is they prefer you take a bulldozer approach, and charge into the withering fire chin-first while they sit safely by. I’m sorry folks, but if you have to support a family and business with your commerce, then you do what you have to do. I like this suggestion you have, so hang in there. I predict a lot of private baking clubs to come. Private photography clubs as well.


35 posted on 02/27/2014 2:00:05 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
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To: discostu
They’re not actually standing on religious principles. If they were standing on religious principles they’d remember they’re supposed to love the sinner and not get their panties in a bunch because the cake is going to be eaten during a ceremony they don’t approve of.

Any idiots here are the ones thinking refusing to bake a cake is religious principle. It’s grandstanding idiocy.

Who are you to decide what THEIR religious principles should be?

You should hook up with Yalle - you both have this God thing nailed down. You need to go clean up the world and let everyone know what Christianity really is. That way nobody would need laws that protect THEIR religious freedom, because they'd have YOUR word to guide them. And relly, who needs anything else, right?

Oh, and please tell the Muslims where they are making mistakes, too. I'd really enjoy seeing that.

36 posted on 02/27/2014 2:00:23 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: MrB
These things will have to be taken head on, because any “workaround” that you propose will be stomped on by the homos and the State.

You have to remember that their goal is the criminalization of Christianity and respond appropriately.

Ah but you see, I AM taking it head-on.

These rulings against Christians are being made against their privately owned CORPORATIONS. What I am doing is working with how corporate law actually operates. No one else is doing that. When these bakers argue religious freedom, the judge is ruling that a corporation has no religious freedom. Did you know that? Because that's what's really going on.

That's why I came up with this solution - because it deals with what is really going on.

37 posted on 02/27/2014 2:03:28 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker

T: this has to do with protecting people’s RIGHT to live THEIR religion as THEY SEE FIT.

Are you going to argue that a Muslim should serve pork at their restaurant? Are you going to tell them thay they are not being relistic, or approoriate as Muslims?


Y: Jews who own traditional Jewish delis (obviously not kosher delis) serve pork - there are blt sandwiches, bacon, etc. Do you want to only sell to people who are like you, or do you want everyone to eat at your place?


T: Yet you feel perfectly able to tell Christians the limits and standards of Christianity.


Y: Nope, never did I feel or say that.

This is about commerce and selling to the general public. Wedding cakes are cakes. They are not religious. I don’t have to know much about Christianity to know that wedding cakes are not religious, and also to know that sinners buy them. Sinners of all kinds.


38 posted on 02/27/2014 2:04:06 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: MrB

Some people can’t afford to take these things “head-on.” Not everybody can afford white-shoe lawyers, and the foundations can’t take all the cases. Give the little guy a break.

Yes, the heathens have to be taken head-on, but the small businessmen have to take a more pragmatic approach when they can. They just don’t have the financial resources. God love ‘em.


39 posted on 02/27/2014 2:04:23 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
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To: Talisker

Stop yelling at us. We aren’t rewriting any Bible. Quote scripture, please, to support your thinking that baking a cake, or making any food, for imperfect people is against scripture.


40 posted on 02/27/2014 2:06:10 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: Talisker

I know what The Bible SAYS their religious principle is supposed to be. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

See I don’t need to clean up the world, you’re a dying breed. Not the least of which because you get yourself all hypered into a frenzy that’s going to lead to a heart attack. Really 99% of the Christians are not bothered by this. It’s just the Westboro Baptist types that think screaming is useful that are mad, largely because mad is the only emotion they’ve got.

The Muslims are making lots of mistakes. They keep killing children, and often trees get destroyed, both of which are against the jihad rules.


41 posted on 02/27/2014 2:06:40 PM PST by discostu (I don't meme well.)
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To: KC Burke

Thanks KC - We see on the foundation stone of almost every church “Dedicated to the Glory of God...”. How can we then let things happen inside that show Him disdain? I think it behooves us to find ways of preventing it from happening. That may eventually mean we just stand up and take the consequences but in the meantime maybe we should listen to Jesus’ words Matt 10:16 “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.

Mel


42 posted on 02/27/2014 2:13:35 PM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: discostu

“Any idiots here are the ones thinking refusing to bake a cake is religious principle. It’s grandstanding idiocy.”

Imagine suing someone for not baking a cake for you because they don’t believe that participating in ‘gay marriage’ with their bakery business is conducive to the faith they practice.

I don’t know, I’m not sure I would apply the grandstanding idiot label to the business. I mean come on.

Freegards


43 posted on 02/27/2014 2:20:22 PM PST by Ransomed
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To: discostu

“They’re not actually standing on religious principles.”

So, there’s absolutely no connection between forcing a doctor to provide abortions, or forcing pharmacists to provide RU-278, or forcing Halal and Kosher delis to sell pork, and forcing a Christian baker to bake a cake for sodomites.

There is no relationship there at all, besides of course slavery. You are forcing me to provide a service I don’t want to provide. If I refuse, then I could be sued out of business.

Take God out of the equation here. If I don’t want to sell you something, anything, and I’m a private business, then I shouldn’t have to sell it to you, or show cause why I have a right not to.

From my work, a known pedophile was granted a home loan in a prominent neighborhood by a bank in the Atlanta area. It hit the paper and people went nuts and wondered what pack of morons would give a mortgage to a pedophile in an upscale neighborhood less than a mile from an elementary school.

Now, we figured out which bank it was.

Do you think the bank deserved that hell they got when we publicized the fact that they had been the ones who did it?

Are banks obligated to provide loans to every strictly qualified individual that applies for a loan?

Should a private bank be forced by the USG to make loans to people they know can’t pay them back?

What rights do private companies and private individuals have over the goods and services they market, in your mind?

A free-enterpriser would even be OK with businesses withholding their services and goods to blacks, women, white people, short people, etc.

This is because the market tends to sort this stuff out for itself. CNN discriminates against conservatives all the time with impunity from prosecution or civil suit. The even lie about them using public frequencies. They are circling the drain as we speak.

The NFL refused to run some advertisements during the Super Bowl. They get a pass?

So, again, should we reinstate slavery legally here in the USA? Make me a cake or I’ll sue you out of existence sounds pretty close to slavery to me.

And I shouldn’t have to lie, compromise my 1st amendment rights, design an arcane corporate structure, or quietly submit to the litigious terrorism of a couple of sodomites or tribadists.

And don’t bother lifting a finger to help defend these folks. By the time somebody is holding a gun to your head there will be plenty of caring folks left to come to your defense.

It could never happen here, after all.


44 posted on 02/27/2014 2:22:13 PM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: Yaelle
I don’t have to know much about Christianity to know that wedding cakes are not religious, and also to know that sinners buy them.

Should a Protestant baker be forced by law to provide a Marian themed wedding cake to a Catholic couple? Should a Protestant photographer be forced by law to attend and photograph a Catholic Nuptial Mass?

I'm Catholic and I say no to both.

45 posted on 02/27/2014 2:27:20 PM PST by Legatus (Keep calm and carry on)
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To: Yaelle
“We as a conservative, return to the Constitution movement would be best pursuing one mindedly that purpose, not refusing to treat or serve people whose sins are more apparent.

Or else change your line of work to one where you don’t deal with the public at all.”

As usual, you raise an interesting issue. What of Muslims? Does the Jewish owner of a range have to allow Muslims to shoot at his range? Does the Jewish instructor have to give firearms instruction to Muslims?

The above question is predicated upon American law not yet taking cognizance of the hard fact that Islam is a war cult rather than a religion.

Could a case be made that as Islam is antithetical to America's Founding Documents, and irreconcilable with them, that the Islamic demand that all Muslims fight for sharia law make Muslims walking, talking treason?

46 posted on 02/27/2014 2:27:41 PM PST by GladesGuru (Islam Delenda Est - because of what Islam is and because of what Muslims do.)
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To: discostu

all you need to do is say that the groom-groom decoration is special order and very expensive. There are many ways to keep from doing what goes against your conscience without have to outright say “no”.

I do like the observation of going to a gay printer and having them print out “gay conversion therapy” literature.


47 posted on 02/27/2014 2:35:48 PM PST by WMarshal (Free citizen, never a subject or a civilian)
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To: Ransomed

They aren’t participating in a gay marriage, they’re making a cake. Just like I said to somebody else: did they not provide cakes to atheist weddings? If you’re taking the strict Christian view of marriage and what it should be and what it’s for atheists’ weddings are just as far removed from those rules as gay weddings.


48 posted on 02/27/2014 2:37:40 PM PST by discostu (I don't meme well.)
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To: RinaseaofDs

You erected a strawman. There’s a difference between product/ service selection and customer selection. People who bake wedding cakes bake wedding cakes, picking and choosing your customers based on whether or not you consider it a wedding is at best silly. What if I want a wedding cake from you because I like wedding cakes? Am I now not eligible because there’s not going to be any kind of wedding?

Not forcing anybody to provide a service you don’t want to provide. You’re in the wedding cake making business, that is a service you have agreed to provide, you are advertising that you provide it. Now you’re saying “well not that wedding”, that’s discrimination whether or not those customers are in a protected class.

Assuming the home placement didn’t violate any laws on the proximity of sex offenders to schools the bank did the right thing. A valid customer wanted a service they provide, so they provided it.

They shouldn’t be forced to make loans to people that can’t pay, or that can’t legally live there. But that should be the limit of their discrimination, anybody that can’t pay the loan back isn’t a valid customer, anybody that can’t legally live there also isn’t a valid customer, anybody else is valid, make the loan.

The can pick the goods and services they provide, customer discrimination needs to be based on validity of the customer. Thieves, people who can’t pay, people disrupting other customers are out. Everybody else is in. For one thing it’s just good business, they have money and you want it, that’s why you opened a business.

CNN doesn’t use public frequencies.

The NFL has set rules about what can and can’t be associated with their brand, generally revolving around avoiding controversy. They want to annoy as few people as possible. Which is a version of kicking out customers that disrupt other customers, annoy too many people ratings suffer and the other advertiser aren’t getting what they paid for.

Nobody is reinstating slavery, we’re pointing out common sense.


49 posted on 02/27/2014 2:50:10 PM PST by discostu (I don't meme well.)
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To: discostu

So the word ‘wedding’ doesn’t have any religious connotations to it that would merit the one making the cake to object to their participation?

You’re right about CNN, I should have said PBS, and they’d be out of business if I weren’t sending them my tax dollars.

A wedding cake baker bakes cakes for weddings. He can decide not to make cakes for black masses, the pledging of 65 year old muslim men to 11 year olds, to polygamists, sodomites, tribadists, or even Protestants, if the baker happens to be Catholic and thinks the Protestants rewrote the Bible to be hip about homos.

No straw man here. If I don’t like you, I shouldn’t have to serve you, and I shouldn’t have to give you a reason why I don’t want to. Anything else is indentured servitude, or at worst tortious terrorism.

You think its right to force a doctor to treat patients for $6.65 an hour? That’s the law of the land right now.

You think its legal to tell a business it has to pay $15 an hour minimum to its employees or face legal action?

It’s all fascism - the desire of the state to directly control all forms of commerce.

Telling insurers what the must and mustn’t cover is a form of it. If I have a crucifix on the outside of my hospital, and my CEO is a Catholic nun, why should that hospital be required to suck viable human beings from their mother’s wombs or face legal action?

Why as a taxpayer should I be required to fund it?


50 posted on 02/27/2014 3:04:38 PM PST by RinaseaofDs
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