It is good that you took the time to look at the debate, however, a two or three hour debate (sorry, Im guessing here as I have not seen it) will not provide anything but a trivial bulletpoint summary of the 4-5 thousand hours of research in a PhD thesis.
You keep mentioning Iraneus ... Hitchcock's thesis answers the Iraneus issues ... and he goes on to document 21 more citations for the late date, one of which is earlier than Iraneus. You are best served by downloading his thesis and going through each citation for yourself.
We who hold the late date focus on Iraneus because he was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John. So we have a quote from a second gen disciple of the author of Revelation. That is why the majority of scholars focus on Iraneus ... that is solid stuff.
Hitchcock's contribution to the debate provides additional evidence for the late date. This is the content of chapter 3, the 20 other citations that suggest the 95AD date.
I have read through page 61 (about half-way through Chapter 3.) So far I have seen nothing definitive; only conjecture. The reason for that conclusion is there is nothing definitive known to man. Opinions on external evidence from both sides is strictly that: opinion.
It is a shame Mark doesn't bother to take the time to make his dissertation searchable. To make it useful as a research tool, it should be searchable.
>>>We who hold the late date focus on Iraneus because he was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John. So we have a quote from a second gen disciple of the author of Revelation. That is why the majority of scholars focus on Iraneus ... that is solid stuff.<<<
I know what you believe. You obviously don't know what I or Dr. Ken Gentry believe because you mischaracterized our beliefs in post #4. If you continue to add new posts without correcting the record, I will be forced to withdraw my apology from #17.
On to Polycarp: he was not born until 69 AD, but later claimed to know John the apostle. Yet, there is no (zero) evidence that the person running around after 70 AD claiming to be John was actually John the apostle. Paul warned us about false apostles:
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." (2 Cor 11:13-15 KJV)
What better way to make a name for one's self than claiming to be an apostle of Christ. I believe the real John was resurrected in 70 AD (the first resurrection in Rev 20,) along with the other apostles and elect: exactly as Christ promised; and the fellow running around afterward was an impostor.
Another major point: Dispensationalists use this statement by Polycarp to help "prove" a late date for the Revelation:
"I am greatly grieved for Valens, who was once a presbyter among you, because he so little understands the place that was given him [in the Church]. I exhort you, therefore, that ye abstain from covetousness, and that ye be chaste and truthful. “Abstain from every form of evil.” For if a man cannot govern himself in such matters, how shall he enjoin them on others? If a man does not keep himself from covetousness, he shall be defiled by idolatry, and shall be judged as one of the heathen. But who of us are ignorant of the judgment of the Lord? “Do we not know that the saints shall judge the world?” as Paul teaches. But I have neither seen nor heard of any such thing among you, in the midst of whom the blessed Paul laboured, and who are commended in the beginning of his Epistle. For he boasts of you in all those Churches which alone then knew the Lord; but we [of Smyrna] had not yet known Him. I am deeply grieved, therefore, brethren, for him (Valens) and his wife; to whom may the Lord grant true repentance! And be ye then moderate in regard to this matter, and “do not count such as enemies,” but call them back as suffering and straying members, that ye may save your whole body. For by so acting ye shall edify yourselves." [The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians, Chapter XI]
I can assure you that there is not a soul alive on earth that knows what that means. But dispensationalists "demand" that Polycarp was claiming that the church at Smyrna did not exist until after the days of Paul. That "proof," of course, is only in their imaginations. Historians are all over the place on what Polycarp actually meant, as should anyone be who can read without the blinders of bias.
Philip