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Vatican Commentator on anniversary: Pope Francis has irrevocably changed the papacy
Vatican News Agency ^ | March 13, 2014

Posted on 03/13/2014 2:09:36 PM PDT by NYer

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To: metmom

That’s the way NKP Vet sees it. I could care less what you or anyone else thinks of my interpretation of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.


61 posted on 03/14/2014 8:25:13 AM PDT by NKP_Vet ("I got a good Christin' raisin', an 8th grade education, ain't no need ya'll treatin' me this way")
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To: NKP_Vet

And when it comes to Scripture?


62 posted on 03/14/2014 9:33:10 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: NKP_Vet; Biggirl
States, for instance, justify civil unions as a way to provide economic security to cohabitating couples, the Pope said in a wide-ranging interview published Wednesday in Corriere della Sera, an Italian daily. State-sanctioned unions are thus driven by the need to ensure rights like access to health care, Francis added”

Do you and Francis also believe that states should also ensure rights, like access to healthcare, to polygamists and their many wives, or to pedophiles and their victims, or to people who practice bestiality?

63 posted on 03/14/2014 10:19:15 AM PDT by ebb tide
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To: NKP_Vet; All
Just means God will judge them, like the rest of humanity, on the last day. The ones that were never exposed to Jesus Christ, could find a way to eternal salvation. The ones that have been exposed to Him, but go around killing Christians, and running planes into buildings, will burn in hell.

That is just your interpretation, and I notice that you do not clearly say whether Muslims who have heard of Jesus Christ can still be saved or not, so perhaps your interpretation is not different from the Popes. (We will leave aside for a moment your blasphemous claim that any are saved outside of the church due to their ignorance, which I will demolish after this first initial point). Pope John Paul the second is the one who put his Apostolic authority behind it and affirmed its teachings. How does he interpret it?

Some relevant quotes indicating he believes that there is truth in every religion.

John Paul II, Address, May 22, 2002: “Praise to you, followers of Islam… Praise to you, Jewish people… Praise especially to you, Orthodox Church…”

John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio (# 55), Dec. 7, 1990: “God… does not fail to make himself present in many ways, not only to individuals but also to entire peoples through their spiritual riches, of which their religions are the main and essential expression…”

It's pretty clear that Pope John Paul understands that teaching as saying that Muslims can get into heaven, exactly as you said, provided they are "judged righteous" by God. IOW, they are saved by their works and by their faith in Allah. And during his time he kissed their holy objects, engaged in ceremonies with them, and even encouraged them to pray to their false gods. Is THIS really what your religion has always taught?

More quotes:

Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos (# 2), Jan. 6, 1928: “For which reason conventions, meetings and addresses are frequently arranged by these persons, at which a large number of listeners are present, and at which all without distinction are invited to join in the discussion, both infidels of every kind, and Christians, even those who have unhappily fallen away from Christ or who with obstinacy and pertinacity deny His divine nature and mission. Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little, turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion.”

Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos (# 10): “So, Venerable Brethren, it is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of nonCatholics…”

St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Pt. I-II, Q. 103, A. 4: “All ceremonies are professions of faith, in which the interior worship of God consists. Now man can make profession of his inward faith, by deeds as well as by words: and in either profession, if he make a false declaration, he sins mortally.”

St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Thelogica, Pt. II-II, Q. 12, A. 1, Obj. 2: “...if anyone were to... worship at the tomb of Mahomet, he would be deemed an apostate.”

The answer is clear. Your Pope is in hell according to the ancient standards of your own religion.

Now as to your blasphemous claim that any can be saved outside of Christianity due to their ignorance:

There is no such thing as invincible ignorance, or excuses, or a grace that is given that does not lead directly to Christ. As the scripture says, all men are guilty before God, regardless of how much “light” they have received (Rom 3:19). As all men have received, to a certain extent, the law of God imprinted on their hearts, as well as the light of nature revealing the existence of God, therefore they are summarily rendered “without excuse,” (Rom 1:20, 2:14) and “as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law” (Rom 2:12). And again, “for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God”(Rom 3:9-11). And again, all those who do not know God have no hope, and lack God in the world (Eph 2:12).

And finally, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me,” and, to “come” is to believe: “But there are some of you who do not believe... This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” (Joh 6:37, 64-65), thus it cannot be claimed that there are those who are saved who exist amongst horrid cults or false religions who deny the Father and the Son, since all those whom the Father gives to the Son do not stand idle, but come rushing into the arms of the savior according to His plan and promise.

1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

If any man is in the world who never heard the Gospel, it was by the infallible power of God, and not by random chance, that he was left so abandoned. And, therefore, it was one of those whom God chose not to have mercy on, in accordance with His almighty sovereignty (Rom 9:18-21).

64 posted on 03/14/2014 12:54:46 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

It’s pretty scary when non-Catholics know the Traditional Catholic Faith better than the post VII Catholics.


65 posted on 03/14/2014 2:18:57 PM PDT by piusv
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To: metmom

Same thing goes for scripture, because I consult the Catechism to help me out with scripture. That’s the purpose of the Catechism. No one is smart enough to figure out scripture on their own. You only have to look at protestants to understand that. Everybody and their brother has their own interpretation on what scripture says. And they’re all right, just ask them.


66 posted on 03/14/2014 3:10:44 PM PDT by NKP_Vet ("I got a good Christin' raisin', an 8th grade education, ain't no need ya'll treatin' me this way")
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To: NKP_Vet

So who is the infallible interpreter of the interpretation of the CCC?

And who is the infallible interpreter of the interpretation of Scripture?

Anyone who cannot correctly interpret Scripture cannot correctly interpret any other writings of men.

Besides, it’s not the CCC that explains Scripture, but the Holy Spirit. Catholicism tends to leave Him out of the equation pretty regularly.


67 posted on 03/14/2014 3:13:50 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

“And who is the infallible interpreter of the interpretation of Scripture”

All your protestant brethren, just ask them. And they are all right. They are never wrong.


68 posted on 03/14/2014 3:44:10 PM PDT by NKP_Vet ("I got a good Christin' raisin', an 8th grade education, ain't no need ya'll treatin' me this way")
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To: NKP_Vet

Nope.

I’m asking about Catholicism’s infallible interpreter of the interpretation of Scritpure.

That’s what the possessive pronoun *your* is referring to. Not mine. Yours. As in Catholic’s.


69 posted on 03/14/2014 4:45:56 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

The Catechism is the interpreter of scripture.


70 posted on 03/14/2014 4:55:43 PM PDT by NKP_Vet ("I got a good Christin' raisin', an 8th grade education, ain't no need ya'll treatin' me this way")
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