Posted on 05/01/2014 3:25:30 AM PDT by GonzoII
1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
How can you commune with other Catholics whether it be lay or cleric when they teach against this scripture??? They claim the lay people are not and can not be indwelt with the Holy Spirit???
Well done. It amazes me how those who follow the RCC can be so blind to what scripture really teaches.
Gates are a defensive structure, not an offensive one. THe gates of hell are not attacking the church.
The gates of hell will not prevail (stand) against the CHURCH'S attacks against the kingdom of darkness.
Honestly,if that's the best Catholics can do in interpreting Scripture, it puts them in no position to criticize others for their interpretations.
If you want to hold the Catholic Church’s leader’s to higher standards then Jesus knew no man could attain, then please apply this same expectations to all other denominations.
Hey, it's not my idea to hold them to that standard. The HOLY SPIRIT inspired Paul to write that. Not me.
Besides, the Catholic church claims responsibility for Scripture and the Bible. Tell THEM they're setting the bar too high. Or tell Jesus who was the one who said to be perfect even as God is perfect.
Let’s start with Protestant TV evangelists - they seem to have a half life of about 5.5 years.
*seem to* That's real definitive.
And of what relevance is the length of one's ministry?
Or the never ending splintering Baptists, Methodists, or community churches within 5 miles of my house that keep changing names and going under because of Pastor infidelities and youth miniistry child predators.
Oh really? And that's made the news? Could you provide some evidence for your claim that that happens ANYWHERE?
It certainly is a sad state of affairs.
Yeah, no kidding. Judas was a lesson on the Popes? Um, run, don’t walk away from that organization.
You are really not very familiar with Elsie and his views are you. You think he puts the book of Mormon above the Bible? I would suggest you review his views on the Book of Mormon before you diminish your credibility any more.
But the logical conclusion of that argument impugns the very magisterium in declaring things "which are to be held definitively" ( which are to be held definitively) as the results of a papal election, even if it is not definitively infallible.
For unless you hold that the electors are omniscient and only wise as God is, and thus can elect a Judas as He will work it out for Good, then the election of popes who were morally more like a Judas means the bishop erred in choosing, or more likely did so out of political considerations.
Thus they no more warrant submission in such than did the Scribes and Pharisees who rejected Christ, but which was by God's wondrous design for the salvation of the elect.
Well, as you must know, the "fathers" are only valid when they support.
When you assent to a system that calls for and fosters assent of faith to her teaching under the premise of her assured veracity, rather than the weight of Scriptural warrant being the basis for assurance of Truth, then all evidence must be made to support Rome. Scripture is a servant to do that for Rome, not her master.
And the logic behind the argument used to support this premise is perverse and nukes the church.
You really do leave a lot of Scripture out to present about half the truth.
Please note the underlined section with Peter speaking and the second underlines section with James affirming what Peter said and then moving on to speak about dietary laws.
Acts, chapter 15
CHAPTER 15
1* Some who had come down from Judea were instructing the brothers,a “Unless you are circumcised according to the Mosaic practice,b you cannot be saved.”* 2
Because there arose no little dissension and debate by Paul and Barnabas with them, it was decided that Paul, Barnabas, and some of the others should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and presbyters about this question.
3They were sent on their journey by the church, and passed through Phoenicia and Samaria telling of the conversion of the Gentiles, and brought great joy to all the brothers.
4When they arrived in Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church, as well as by the apostles and the presbyters, and they reported what God had done with them.
5But some from the party of the Pharisees who had become believers stood up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and direct them to observe the Mosaic law.”
6* The apostles and the presbyters met together to see about this matter.
7* After much debate had taken place, Peter got up and said to them, “My brothers, you are well aware that from early days God made his choice among you that through my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.c 8And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by granting them the holy Spirit just as he did us.d
9He made no distinction between us and them, for by faith he purified their hearts.e
10Why, then, are you now putting God to the test by placing on the shoulders of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear?f
11On the contrary, we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus,g in the same way as they.”*
12The whole assembly fell silent, and they listened while Paul and Barnabas described the signs and wonders God had worked among the Gentiles through them.
13* After they had fallen silent, James responded, “My brothers, listen to me.
14Symeon* has described how God first concerned himself with acquiring from among the Gentiles a people for his name. 15The words of the prophets agree with this, as is written:
and rebuild the fallen hut of David;
from its ruins I shall rebuild it
and raise it up again,
17so that the rest of humanity may seek out the Lord,
even all the Gentiles on whom my name is invoked.
Thus says the Lord who accomplishes these things,
18known from of old.’
19i It is my judgment, therefore, that we ought to stop troubling the Gentiles who turn to God, 20but tell them by letter to avoid pollution from idols, unlawful marriage, the meat of strangled animals, and blood.j 21For Moses, for generations now, has had those who proclaim him in every town, as he has been read in the synagogues every sabbath.”
All Due respect no. Peace in Christ
Peace in Christ
You really should study what Catholic believe before making such erroneous statements. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church :
1302 It is evident from its celebration that the effect of the sacrament of Confirmation is the special outpouring of the Holy Spirit as once granted to the apostles on the day of Pentecost.
And that is the problem. Without a living Magisterium protected by the Holy Spirit a Protestant cannot have an objective faith but only a private opinion. Nor will a simple appeal to Scripture work. The various Protestant denominations testify to the numerous conflicting opinions among them as to the meaning of Scripture. Likewise, the constant charge made against Catholics that our teachings go against Scripture will not stand since what we are arguing about are different interpretations of Scripture, as this thread highlights.
An honest Protestant must acknowledge that Catholics do indeed derive their teaching from Scripture and sincerely believe that Catholicism offers a better interpretation of it. A Protestant is free to say that this interpretation is false and that he does not share it, but he can only say that this is a matter of his opinion, not that it is a rejection of Scripture itself. It always amazes me that Protestants will rail against Catholic claims of infallibility for the Church while expressing their own private opinions as if they were the infallible interpretation of Scripture.
Shoot, I thought that I had you! : )
Contrary to what some liberal (i.e. Protestant inspired) Catholics will tell you, Vatican II did not change a single doctrine of the Church.
You might notice the the apostles and presbyters (your magisterium) are NOT the church...The church is the assembly of lay people...
James on Dietary Law.
Obviously you intend to claim that James only spoke of dietary law while Peter was the big schmooze in charge of all affairs...
But as we can see, you are wrong again...
19i It is my judgment, therefore, that we ought to stop troubling the Gentiles who turn to God, 20but tell them by letter to avoid pollution from idols, unlawful marriage, the meat of strangled animals, and blood.j 21For Moses, for generations now, has had those who proclaim him in every town, as he has been read in the synagogues every sabbath.”
Nope...Jesus would have said 'you' instead of 'this'...
Besides, it is clear in the scriptures that the church was built upon all the apostles, not just Peter, with Jesus as the Chief Foundation stone, the Rock...
Last word It is? lol!!!!!!
Where did you come up with this idea?
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