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To: NY.SS-Bar9

Papal Infallibility is a term that applies to the teachings of the Church.

It has nothing to do with the nature of the men leading the Church.

As for bad Popes and sinful clergy, Jesus himself prepared us for this when
in he brought Judas into his inner circle.

Every Pope is and will continue to be a sinner. None of the Popes, even the “bad” Popes, (less than 4% of the 265) ever changed the original teachings of the Church. The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains the teachings of the Church. You will not find the abuses of power of the few bad popes reaffirmed in any manner in the Catechism.


11 posted on 05/01/2014 5:14:44 AM PDT by motoman (")
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To: motoman

Excellent explanation. I should have read yours before posting my attempt at an answer.


22 posted on 05/01/2014 5:39:52 AM PDT by Bigg Red (1 Pt 1: As he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in every aspect of your conduct.)
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To: motoman; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; CynicalBear; ...
As for bad Popes and sinful clergy, Jesus himself prepared us for this when in he brought Judas into his inner circle.

Just.... wow.....

Did you all happen to notice that Jesus did not put Judas in charge of His church?

Hey, gamecock. Another one.

46 posted on 05/01/2014 7:21:51 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: motoman; metmom; NY.SS-Bar9; Gamecock
As for bad Popes and sinful clergy, Jesus himself prepared us for this when in he brought Judas into his inner circle.

But the logical conclusion of that argument impugns the very magisterium in declaring things "which are to be held definitively" ( which are to be held definitively) as the results of a papal election, even if it is not definitively infallible.

For unless you hold that the electors are omniscient and only wise as God is, and thus can elect a Judas as He will work it out for Good, then the election of popes who were morally more like a Judas means the bishop erred in choosing, or more likely did so out of political considerations.

Thus they no more warrant submission in such than did the Scribes and Pharisees who rejected Christ, but which was by God's wondrous design for the salvation of the elect.

107 posted on 05/01/2014 5:27:27 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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