The canonization of Vatican II continues: Paul VI beatification in October

WDTPRS ^ | 5/7/2014 | Fr John Zuhlsdorf

[Arthur McGowan]

The worst Pope in the last 500 years, at least.

The Church is making itself ridiculous.

[Biggirl]

Look for more making blesseds to come for a few more popes.

[NTHockey]

What next, canonize Mohammed?

Montini did more damage to the Catholic Church than any man since Martin Luther.

[Verginius Rufus]

Worse than Leo X (1513-1521)? (Just barely within the last 500 years.)

[NKP_Vet]

http://the-american-catholic.com/2011/12/04/pope-paul-vi-and-the-smoke-of-satan/

Pope Paul VI and the “Smoke of Satan”.

[BlatherNaut]

Canonizing every single Council participant would not reconcile the peculiar contradictions between pre- and post-Vatican II beliefs and practices. By current papal standards, St. Isaac Jogues was engaged in “solemn nonsense” and St. Thomas More’s refusal to compromise with Henry VIII was a rejection of “mercy”. Post-VII faux ecumenism is at the root of these strange new perceptions.

[Salvation]

[HEY! This is the canonization of HUMANAE VITAE too!]

Father Z, I agree.

[Salvation]

[HEY! This is the canonization of HUMANAE VITAE too!]

[Mrs. Don-o]

Funny, Arthur, that you term Pope Paul VI the worst pope in 500 years, when he gave us Humanae Vitae, the most important Magisterial teaching since Trent, maybe since Nicaea --- and faced down the whole world, faced down every wayward human power, including wayward ecclesiastical powers, and all the citadels of demonic power-- in order to do it.

It's a paradox, isn't it?

Because if the world is still in existence 500 years from now --- and I mean an inhabited planet with human beings on it, who know they are human and not machines, animals, cyborgs or pure hellions --- they will have Paul VI to thank for it. Paul VI, Servus Servorum Dei.

[Mrs. Don-o]

" By current papal standards, St. Isaac Jogues was engaged in “solemn nonsense” and St. Thomas More’s refusal to compromise with Henry VIII was a rejection of “mercy”."

I know exactly the allusions you are making here, and I would argue nevertheless that your statement is unjust.

• The "solemn nonsense" allusion is to Eugenio Scalfari's dubious quote about what Pope Francis told him over the phone, in an interview which the 90-year-old atheist neither recorded and for which he took no written notes. (This is journalism?) In other words, whether Pope Francis ever said those words is in itself dicey.

  A different interpretation is demanded by the fact that Francis has forcefully and frequently written and spoken in favor of evangelization, the outreach to all nations with the Good News of Jesus Christ, the mission to disciple and baptize every soul for the Kingdom of God.

  To say that Pope Francis would object to the mission of St. Isaac Jogues is, I think, a frivolous rash judgment.

• As to the speculation that Pope Francis would reject St. Thomas More's defense of the King Henry VIII/ Queen Catherine marriage bond as a denial of 'mercy' --- again, this isn't even just sloppy casuistry, it's the most reckless kind of extrapolation.

  This argument does not demonstrate a diligent attention to accuracy and a fair evaluation of evidence.

  I believe you could make your point in a stronger and more effective way if you paid more attention to exact quotes and closely related context.

  St. Thomas More was a stickler about exact words, and silences, and how to fairly construe them. His life depended on it. In such matters, he said he would even treat the Devil fairly. I think you owe that much to the pope.

A Few Words from St. Thomas More (LINK)

[Arthur McGowan]

Even counting HV, he’s still the worst Pope in centuries.

He should never have appointed the commission on contraception. During the time they were operating, millions of couples started using the Pill.

Destroyed the Roman Rite. Appointed WRETCHED bishops. Sent Jean Jadot to America, who recommended the absolute scum of the priesthood to be made bishops. Weakland, Clark, Hubbard, Bernardin, Roach, Malone, Hickey. On and on and on. All of them vicious enemies of the pro-life movement.

The only American bishop who unambiguously upheld HV was Patrick A. O’Boyle, Archbishop of Washington. Paul VI allowed the homosexual John Cardinal Wright to cut O’Boyle off at the knees. Wright’s homosexual secretary, Donald Wuerl, became a bishop, and has devoted himself for decades to coddling Dignity and defending pro-aborts’ right to receive Communion.

I don’t think Paul VI or any modern Pope is in hell! But I am opposed to canonizing Popes who were a disaster for the Church. The Papacy was their “state in life,” and official sainthood should be reserved for those who fulfilled the duties of their state in life, no matter how humble or exalted, not those who botched one thing after another.

[Arthur McGowan]

Wait a minute!!!

We’ve been told that canonization DOES NOT CONCERN a Pope’s PAPACY—just his personal holiness!

[Mrs. Don-o]

Surely "Humanae Vitae" demonstrated in most dramatic fashion that the Holy Spirit would preserve the Church from the formal promulgation of error. In this matter it was Paul VI (and the Holy Spirit) contra mundum.

I agree that canonizations recently have been too many, too fast and too casually vetted. You should still need two rigorously well-attested post-mortem miracles, and 50 years after the fellow's in the grave --- in my opinion.

But if it were not for Humanae Vitae, there would scarcely be a faithful Catholic left anywhere in the Church.

IMVVHHO.

So I give my profound respect --- notwithstanding all your serious points --- to Pope Paul VI. To me, Humanae Vitae was the practical equivalent of raising the dead.

[piusv]

And his promulgation of Vatican II more than cancels out any positive that came from HV.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"And his promulgation of Vatican II more than cancels out any positive that came from HV [Humanae Vitae]."

Pio, I am amazed at your curt, smack-down confidence in your own sweeping negative judgments. Who told you this revelation that the sin/crime of having convened the Second Vatican Council "cancels" the positives of Humanae Vitae? Are you a clairvoyant --- or a prosecutor --- in the sifting of souls? You sound more like "the Accuser of our Brothers" than a son/daughter of the Church.

I would not dare to anathematize you or Arthur or anyonew else --- let alone Pope Paul VI--- in this manner. If I thought my failures --- and they are many --- "cancelled" the work of the Holy Spirit in me, I would despair. I would not dare --- I would be terrified --- to measure by such a measure.

[ebb tide]

Paul VI to be Canonized? The Triumph of Wayward Sentiment

[ebb tide]

Paul VI beatified?

[ebb tide]

To me, Humanae Vitae was the practical equivalent of raising the dead.

That statement is absolute hogwash. Will you say the same thing when Pope Francis finally comes to his senses and stops entertaining giving Holy Communion to adulterers?

[NTHockey]

Even a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day.