Question: Does desecrating the Eucharist "harm" God in any way?

Vivificat - From Contemplation to Action ^ | 15 May 2014 | Teófilo de Jesús (@vivificat)

[Teófilo]

Brethren, Peace be with you.

The recent attempt by a number of misguided children to reenact a black mass in Harvard University brought to mind that incident almost six years ago, when a third-rate scientist in the University of Minnesota also abused academic freedom and basic human respect in his own show at desecrating the Eucharist. Both activities, the black mass, and the teacher's rant, were satanically inspired, the difference being that one acknowledges the inspiration, while the other denies it.

This brings to mind a question that might be in the minds of some: does harming the Eucharist somehow "harms" God?

The short answer is "no."

I'll take these verses from the Gospel of John as a starting point for a brief reflection on the issue:

²⁹ And now I have told you before it takes place, so that when it does take place, you may believe. ³⁰ I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me; ³¹ but I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Rise, let us go hence. (John 14:29-31, RSV)

The "ruler" or "prince" of this world is Satan. Jesus asserts that Satan has no power over Him. I imagine that Satan would have wanted to use all his angelic power to destroy the human nature to which the Word of God was united to in the person of Jesus, but couldn't, not because God prohibited it by some decree, or because Jesus was surrounded by protective angels, no, not at all, but because even Satan understands the abyss between the Creator and the creature, that the abyss between him and God persisted even after the incarnation, and that such an action would have been less than futile. Ridiculous, in fact, and the devil hates to be held in ridicule. To this day, the impossibility of  Satan destroying God in the Flesh, of not even influencing Him through temptation, drives the devil into a furious rage to this day.

However, what he was unable to accomplish directly, he had a hand in accomplishing it indirectly. Hence, Satan "entered" Judas Iscariot (John 13:27) starting by this action the whole drama of Jesus' passion and death. The Lord himself acknowledged this "hour of darkness" (Luke 22:53).

Satan didn't have to twist many arms to accomplish the object of his hatred, for all the impurities found in the hearts of men, even their deepest, darkest hatred against God, found easy expression in every slap, spit, insult, thorn, lash, cross, and nail that God suffered in the way of Golgotha.

There's another aspect to the Lord's suffering that, in my view, often goes unacknowledged: the suffering of the Messiah was complete. Nothing bad we do adds to it and yet, in a delicious paradox, the evil we choose not to do subtracts from it for that would be an evil He didn't have to atone for. Therefore, though we can't add to His suffering, we certainly can alleviate it in the evil we don't do. How that works will be the subject of another post.

In the meantime, be assured that whatever evil inane satanists and mad scientists seek to accomplish when they desecrate the Eucharist has no effect on God himself. That would be like claiming to put out a solar flare - much less the entire Sun - with a bucket of water.

These miscreant either know this, of fantasize that they do in fact, hurt God. However, they do perpetrate a real evil, first, against themselves. Because their hatred of God kills the supernatural life of grace within them. They effectively commit spiritual suicide repeatedly every time they engage in a desecration.

The second evil these poor sinners effect is making their hatred against us, believers, clear and manifest, with the object of humiliating us, reducing us to impotence and maybe even making us hate them at which point we would have become them. That's the only clear and present danger I see in these desecrations, not as an expansion of the reign of darkness as such, but the temptation to follow them into deep, dark sin.

Let me finish on a bright note: even the sin of desecration will be forgiven if forgiveness is asked. Jesus himself forgave his executioners and I am sure that Our Lady, the holy women, St. John, and eventually all the apostles, followed suit. There's nothing we can do to stray from God's infinite mercy.

Ergo, let's pray for these miscreants, let us pray for ourselves to not fall into temptation, and let us forgive them because "they know not what they do" (Luke 23:44).

- Read also The Satanic Case for Catholicism at Aleteia.org

[agere_contra]

Christ is independent of time and space. He is the Alpha and Omega. He is God Almighty, and His actions, His sacraments casually span that tiny breath of difference that we on earth call 'time'.

So when we sin we add to His agony in the garden. We add to His pain on the cross. If we didn't sin today, He wouldn't have to take that sin upon Himself in His Passion.

Formal rejection of God by desecrating Him in the blessed sacrament is like murder: it is another sinful act added to Christ's burden.

Instead of saying "Today I will not sin" - perhaps we should say "I will try to get through today without torturing Christ any further".

[Salvation]

And mine is a medal due to allergies to wool.

[Salvation]

I’ll try to find that.

[agere_contra]

YHvH is saddened as millions of His Created Beings are lead astray whenever a mere human performs an act of satanic magic by claiming to change a stale Pesach Matzo into the Creator of the Universe.

Christ the Son of God instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist - the Bread and Wine becoming His Body and Blood - at the Last Supper.

Just to remind the thread about the institution of the Eucharist, and to show its provenance in the early Church.

From Luke:

And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood."

If any corroborating evidence were needed, St Paul speaks about the Eucharist in Corinthians.

And when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord.

Which I quote at length because it shows that the Eucharist was celebrated in the extremely early Church.

In summary: Christ commanded us to eat His Body and drink His Blood: He also commanded us to re-enact the Eucharist.

[tiki]

Think, Jesus suffered ONCE for all. He saw all the sins and sinners from the beginning to the end of time and suffered and died for those sins. He saw those who would desecrate a consecrated host and he died for them too. So Jesus can’t be hurt by Satan.

We can and should be hurt and outraged by the way they are treating our Savior. The world can be hurt by Satan if we let him, that is one reason to never stop praying because God is in control.

Look at the good that came out of this supposed black mass. It rallied believers and made them stand up for their Savior! God can make good of bad.

[BlatherNaut]

Christ died for their sins too. I think it does hurt Christ

It does indeed offend Him. His messenger, the angel at Fatima, makes that very clear:

The Angel’s Prayer

With the Blessed Sacrament suspended in the air, the angel at Fatima prostrated himself, and recited the prayer:

O most Holy Trinity—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—I adore thee profoundly. I offer thee the most Precious Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ—present in all the tabernacles of the world—in reparation for the outrages, sacrileges, and indifference by which He is offended. By the infinite merits of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I beg the conversion of poor sinners.

[Uri’el-2012]

U-2012> YHvH is saddened as millions of His Created Beings are lead astray
whenever a mere human performs an act of satanic magic by claiming to change
a stale Pesach Matzo into the Creator of the Universe.

Christ the Son of God instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist - the Bread and Wine becoming His Body and Blood - at the Last Supper.

Just to remind the thread about the institution of the Eucharist, and to show its provenance in the early Church.

From Luke:

And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood." If any corroborating evidence were needed, St Paul speaks about the Eucharist in Corinthians.

And when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. Which I quote at length because it shows that the Eucharist was celebrated in the extremely early Church.

In summary: Christ commanded us to eat His Body and drink His Blood: He also commanded us to re-enact the Eucharist.

A careful reading under the inspiration of the Ru'ach HaKodesh
will reveal that which is called the "last supper" is indeed Yah'shua
celebrating His Commanded Feast of Passover.
The third cup of Passover Seder is the cup of "Redemption".

The Unleavened bread is the matzah which was hidden
called the Afikomen.
Small pieces of the Afikomen are eaten by all at
the end of the Passover Seder.

Yah'shua commanded us to celebrate His Passover Seder
in remembrance of Him.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Teófilo]

Now there is an odd doctrine. Forgiveness must be asked for and then it will be given. Example Jesus forgave his executioners...because they asked? Hmmm...I missed that part in the story line. Can you help us here?

First, I want to make clear I don't "do" doctrine. :-) I adhere to Catholic doctrine first and foremost and if I state something contrary to it, dismiss what I say.

You are right. Jesus' executioners didn't ask for forgiveness making the Lord's forgiveness a radical act of grace and self-giving. Perhaps He foresaw their asking for forgiveness in a future we are not privy to. We just don't know.

Yet, there it is also a fact that forgiveness doesn't come cheap; grace is free but not cheap. People sin; some repent, some do not; some ask for forgiveness and some do not but both groups are not forgiven just the same. Christians are not to be universalists. There is a hell and hell is forever.

The fact remains, though, that forgiveness and redemption was obtained for us by Jesus and his life, death, and resurrection.

~Theo

[Teófilo]

“Annoys” - I don’t think so.

“Saddens” - definitely.

“Anger” - that’s felt in hell. Which as you know, it is forever.

~Theo

[Teófilo]

God forgives the most even the fool who, hiding behind hebraisms, dares to say sad, stupid things about a wonder they don’t understand, like the (bad) Pharisees of old.

Shalom a’lechem.
~Theo

[Teófilo]

Instead of saying "Today I will not sin" - perhaps we should say "I will try to get through today without torturing Christ any further".

From where I stand, that's a distinction without a difference. ;-)

~Theo

[agere_contra]

The words of Christ are plain. They are plain - and shocking. So shocking that many of Christ's disciples could not bear them. They ended up leaving Him.

Jesus meant what He said and said what He meant - that He would give His very self to us as food.

The Gospel is abundantly clear:

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

Very clear.

And then the Gospel adds a telling narrative detail.

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

What happens then? Does Jesus say 'Oh no! I only meant it symbolically'?

No he does not:

When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

And how did the disciples take this?

From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Christ meant what He said. He gives us His literal Body and Blood as food for our salvation. He is not using metaphor. He is not speaking symbolically. His words leave no doubt of His meaning.

And then we have the final fact that many of His disciples left Him because of this 'hard teaching'. If Jesus had somehow meant His words about His Body and Blood to be taken symbolically or metaphorically - wouldn't He have explained this to the disciples before they abandoned Him?

But Jesus stood by His words. He meant what He said - we must eat His body and drink His Blood.

The Passover is a symbol of the Eucharist: in both the blood of the lamb saves the people of God.

But the Eucharist is the full truth. It is foreshadowed by the Passover, and is greater than the Passover. This is because the salvific lamb eaten at the Eucharist is not a dumb beast but the lamb of God - Christ Himself.

This from Corinthians:

Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

Like the Passover lamb of old, the sacrifice of our Passover Lamb upon the Cross is the Atonement of the world. We enter into it by eating the flesh of The Lamb in the Eucharist.

Hope this was helpful.

[Gumdrop]

Salvation - your statement, “Christ died for their sins too. I think it does hurt Christ, for it is one of the sins that caused his Crucifixion.”

I agree in one context that such grave sins do/did contribute to the immense amount of suffering our Lord experienced during his passion and crucifixion.

On the other hand, it is true that God, Himself, cannot be hurt by humans, but he can be disappointed by them, which in my estimation happens all the time. It behooves us creatures of a Heavenly Father, to not treat our Creator and our Savior with such disrespect. But as to who and what is hurt, it is the immortal soul of the sinner that is cut off from all grace and contact with God. To get back into the good graces of the Almighty, requires a supernatural gift of contrition/conversion - call it what you will - but it does not come easily.

As others have added to this conversation, we must pray for these sinners, as Jesus told us that there is such joy in heaven over the conversion of one BIG sinner.

[Uri’el-2012]

God forgives the most even the fool who, hiding behind hebraisms, dares to say sad, stupid things about a wonder they don’t understand, like the (bad) Pharisees of old.

I believe Yah'shua commanded us not to call our brother "Raca"

The Pharisees impugned the WORD of YHvH with their traditions.

What blasphemy to claim to kill and sacrifice the creator of the universe daily.

Sorry for the Bad News : Yah'shua was/is/and will always be a Jew.

Yah'shua taught from His Tanach.

He will return to rule the world from "David's throne" in Jerusalem.

All of the Apostles were Jews.

The Roman "church" was created out of whole cloth in 325CE at Nicea.
It was defined and promulgated by the Pagan Emperor Constantine.

Seek the face of YHvH in His WORD.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[BlatherNaut]

13. But how can these rites of expiation bring solace now, when Christ is already reigning in the beatitude of Heaven? To this we may answer in some words of St. Augustine which are very apposite here,—"Give me one who loves, and he will understand what I say" (In Johannis evangelium, tract. XXVI, 4). For any one who has great love of God, if he will look back through the tract of past time may dwell in meditation on Christ, and see Him laboring for man, sorrowing, suffering the greatest hardships, "for us men and for our salvation," well-nigh worn out with sadness, with anguish, nay "bruised for our sins" (Isaias liii, 5), and healing us by His bruises. And the minds of the pious meditate on all these things the more truly, because the sins of men and their crimes committed in every age were the cause why Christ was delivered up to death, and now also they would of themselves bring death to Christ, joined with the same griefs and sorrows, since each several sin in its own way is held to renew the passion of Our Lord: "Crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery" (Hebrews vi, 6). Now if, because of our sins also which were as yet in the future, but were foreseen, the soul of Christ became sorrowful unto death, it cannot be doubted that then, too, already He derived somewhat of solace from our reparation, which was likewise foreseen, when "there appeared to Him an angel from heaven" (Luke xxii, 43), in order that His Heart, oppressed with weariness and anguish, might find consolation. And so even now, in a wondrous yet true manner, we can and ought to console that Most Sacred Heart which is continually wounded by the sins of thankless men, since—as we also read in the sacred liturgy—Christ Himself, by the mouth of the Psalmist complains that He is forsaken by His friends: "My Heart hath expected reproach and misery, and I looked for one that would grieve together with me, but there was none: and for one that would comfort me, and I found none" (Psalm Ixviii, 21).

From MISERENTISSIMUS REDEMPTOR (On Reparation to the Sacred Heart) - Pope Pius XI

https://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P11MISER.HTM

[agere_contra]

What blasphemy to claim to kill and sacrifice the creator of the universe daily.

The Eucharist is an anamnesis - a perfect 'making present' of the Last Supper, Christ's Passion, Death and Resurrection.

It is perfect and effective. We are truly present at Christ's Passion when we go to Mass. Not at some new Passion endlessly repeated, but at the one and only Passion of our Lord.

Christ died once. Christ rises from the dead once. We enter into His Passion, His original-once-and-for-ever sacrifice when we attend mass.

[agere_contra]

Goodnight from the UK. God bless.

[Teófilo]

Yes, Jesus also said that whoever sins against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, neither in this age nor in the age to come.

You ascribed to the Holy Spirit’s work - the transformation of the elements in the Eucharist - to Satan. You did so because ignorance makes you brave. Yet, if I were you, I would really think carefully about things before stating them.

One more thing: there’s neither male nor female, slave or free, or Jew or Gentile anymore, not for those who are in the Messiah. Hiding behind hebraisms and holding to Judaic expression of Christianity will not save you from the wrath to come if you proceed so foolishly along your path.

My Good News for you are that the Lord Jesus will forgive you even that, take you to himself, and give you the peace that the forgiveness of your sins will grant you. Only then, you will be made whole.

~Theo

[Teófilo]

Look, I don’t deny the words of Pope Pius XI. They are true.

What I trying to say is difficult because theological language is analogical by necessity, due to its subject matter. Add to that the apparent “temporal paradoxes” arising from one’s weak attempts to explain God’s viewpoint of every single event in the universe (in “one single eternal act”) and put it in human words which are so limited.

The Pope says we wound Jesus when we sin. I’ve echoed that. All I am saying is that by his Providence, he supplied the mercy and the atonement for that sin “before hand” from our perspective, but before God in his “ever present” mode of existence. That’s all I am saying. It’s certainly true that our sins add to the Passion of Christ, but in His mercy he overflowed and washed every single sin in one single, ever present, eternal act.

What remains is “appropriation” which is too, a grace freely given and also freely accepted.

A person who desecrate the Eucharist does not harm God’s ontological Being. That person only damages the accidents of bread and wine. The “damage” done to God is moral in kind, for it is a sin for which Jesus had to die for. That’s my point and I am sorry if I didn’t express that appropriately.

~Theo

[Iscool]

If any corroborating evidence were needed, St Paul speaks about the Eucharist in Corinthians.

No he doesn't...Paul speaks about performing communion in remembrance of Jesus' death and suffering for our sins...

Your Eucharist is a ritual that claims the bread and wine turns into flesh and blood...

Paul never mentions any such feat...And he never performs any such feat...So what does Paul say???

1Co_11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

Paul said whoever easts this bread...He did not say whoever eats this flesh...Paul knew he had bread in front of him and not anyone's flesh...