Posted on 05/17/2014 4:31:22 PM PDT by Gamecock
[2] 1 Clem. 47.1-3.
[3] 1 Clem. 42.1-2.
[4] 1 Clem 5.2.
[5] Magn. 7.
[6] Rom. 4.4.
[7] 1 Apol. 39.
[8] Apol. 66.3.
[9] Haer. 3.1.1.
[10] Muratorian Fragment, 74.
[11] 63.2.
Seems like the “Fathers” knew what was what before Rome “gave us the canon.”
I’d have a tough time taking their theology seriously if they weren’t.
The writings of the “Fathers” do not seem to reflect the ability of the Apostles both in style and substance. They are interesting in that many of them actually knew some of the Twelve. I am thinking in particular of St Polycarp who knew St. John The Divine. The story of Polycarp’s martyrdom already seems corrupted with an addition of a story of the miraculous. He really was martyred apparently in an arena before a ravening mob.
The “early church fathers” ARE the Apostles. Any guys after that are just guys.
quote “The Apostles received the Gospel for us from the Lord Jesus Christ”
Paul, who wrote most of the new testament never met Christ nor received any Gospel directly from him.
Mark and Luke were not original apostles...
“Paul, who wrote most of the new testament never met Christ nor received any Gospel directly from him.”
He did, it was just post-resurrection.
“11-12 The Gospel I preach to you is no human invention. No man gave it to me, no man taught it to me; it came to me as a direct revelation from Jesus Christ.
13-19 For you have heard of my past career in the Jewish religion, how I persecuted the Church of God with fanatical zeal and, in fact, did my best to destroy it. I was ahead of most of my contemporaries in the Jewish religion, and had a greater enthusiasm for the old traditions. But when the time came for God (who had chosen me from the moment of my birth, and then called me by his grace) to reveal his Son within me so that I might proclaim him to the non-Jewish world, I did not, as might have been expected, talk over the matter with any human being. I did not even go to Jerusalem to meet those who were God’s messengers before me—no, I went away to Arabia and later came back to Damascus. It was not until three years later that I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and I only stayed with him just over a fortnight. I did not meet any of the other messengers, except James, the Lord’s brother.
20-24 All this that I am telling you is, I assure you before God, the plain truth. Later, I visited districts in Syria and Cilicia, but I was still personally unknown to the churches of Judea. All they knew of me, in fact, was the saying: “The man who used to persecute us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” And they thanked God for what had happened to me.”
Paul met Jesus and spoke to him when he was struck blind going to Damascus.
Read your bible. Paul met Christ on the road to Damascus, and received His Gospel by divine revelation.
Cyril of Jerusalem on Sola Scriptura:
Not even his own teachings, he teaches, if it cannot be shown out of the holy scriptures, should be accepted:
“Have thou ever in your mind this seal, which for the present has been lightly touched in my discourse, by way of summary, but shall be stated, should the Lord permit, to the best of my power with the proof from the Scriptures. For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning , but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.” (Cyril of Jerusalem, Cat. Lecture 4, Ch. 17)
Tradition is the summarized knowledge of godliness contained both in the Old and New Testament and is not an extrabiblical invention of man:
“But in learning the Faith and in professing it, acquire and keep that only, which is now delivered to you by the Church, and which has been built up strongly out of all the Scriptures. For since all cannot read the Scriptures, some being hindered as to the knowledge of them by want of learning, and others by a want of leisure, in order that the soul may not perish from ignorance, we comprise the whole doctrine of the Faith in a few lines. This summary I wish you both to commit to memory when I recite it, and to rehearse it with all diligence among yourselves, not writing it out on paper, but engraving it by the memory upon your heart , taking care while you rehearse it that no Catechumen chance to overhear the things which have been delivered to you. I wish you also to keep this as a provision through the whole course of your life, and beside this to receive no other, neither if we ourselves should change and contradict our present teaching, nor if an adverse angel, transformed into an angel of light 2 Corinthians 11:14 should wish to lead you astray. For though we or an angel from heaven preach to you any other gospel than that you have received, let him be to you anathema. Galatians 1:8-9 So for the present listen while I simply say the Creed, and commit it to memory; but at the proper season expect the confirmation out of Holy Scripture of each part of the contents. For the articles of the Faith were not composed as seemed good to men; but the most important points collected out of all the Scripture make up one complete teaching of the Faith. And just as the mustard seed in one small grain contains many branches, so also this Faith has embraced in few words all the knowledge of godliness in the Old and New Testaments. Take heed then, brethren, and hold fast the traditions which you now receive, and write them on the table of your heart.” (Ibid, Lecture 5, Ch. 12)
Right.
And your point?
Many think Mark wrote down what Peter preached.
Luke wrote down the accounts of the eyewitnesses.
The Apostle Paul regards Luke’s Gospel as scripture, and quotes it with equal weight with the writings of Moses.
1Ti_5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
Compare:
Luk 10:7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
Deu_25:4 Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.
Who is Michael J. Kruger? A Protestant
Michael J. Kruger, President and Professor of New Testament at Reformed Theological Seminary, Charlotte, NC.
Interesting view. Especially when considering Christ’s words describing God the Father. Christ uses language that clearly demonstrate that the Father is superior .... yet ancient dogma, much of it influenced by dubious Emperors, has developed a super-biblical creeds through which all biblical understanding must conform.
So what RC writers hold that the writings of so-called church fathers were wholly inspired as Scripture was? And do they just the church more than the church judges them? And is God the author of infallible teachings of Rome as he is of Scripture?
Try to answer this time, rather than posting propaganda or pictures.
Many of them knew the Apostles so they got their information person to person, face to face.
I call that inspired Holy Tradition.
Indeed.
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; (Ephesians 2:19-20)
All of which were rebels against the magisterium, which, like Rome, thought of themselves above that which was written.
Who was it that whining about "propaganda?"
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