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To: Elsie
We have been blessed with holy popes in the last century. Sadly, some popes, over the last 2000 years, did terrible things.

But what does this prove, besides the fact that some popes did terrible things? Christians sin. Popes sin.

The Church doesn't teach that popes are impeccable.

The Church teaches that the pope teaches infallibly, regarding faith and morals, when he invokes his charism of infallibility. No pope has ever formally promulgated a heresy.

Yet, for all of their sins, I don't know of a pope who taught that Christians should "sin boldly," as Luther did in his letter to Melanchthon.

“If you are a preacher of grace, then preach a true and not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly, for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here [in this world] we have to sin. This life is not the dwelling place of righteousness, but, as Peter says, we look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. It is enough that by the riches of God’s glory we have come to know the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world. No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day. Do you think that the purchase price that was paid for the redemption of our sins by so great a Lamb is too small? Pray boldly—you too are a mighty sinner.”
Luther wasn't ignorant of Scripture, so one has to question his sanity.
“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my command: Love each other.

One can assume that Luther "sinned boldly," otherwise he would be a hypocrite.

So, the founder of Protestantism, does not appear to have been impeccable either. Yet you hold to his teachings.

252 posted on 05/26/2014 4:44:22 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
But what does this prove, besides the fact that some popes did terrible things? Christians sin. Popes sin.
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So, the founder of Protestantism, does not appear to have been impeccable either. Yet you hold to his teachings.

So, a bunch of bad Catholic popes get the pooh-pooh treatment over THEIR sins; Yet you hold Luther's feet to the flames.

258 posted on 05/26/2014 5:51:27 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

There’s an inherent problem in trying to have a logical discussion with a poster who seems incapable of following logic. I always admire your perservance.


261 posted on 05/26/2014 10:15:15 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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