Can Roman Catholics be saved? (Open)

Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry ^ | 2013 | Matt Slick

[narses]

[dartuser]

Works are the manifestation of faith. Works won’t earn you salvation; rather they are the fruit of faith.

So what are the 'dead works' we are to repent of in Hebrews 6:1? Are you going to merely presume your good works as a Catholic ARE good works and not dead works?

[Iscool]

We are not a Church that believes in salvation by works.

You believe in salvation without works???

[ShadowAce]

Salvation has a difficult time with the truth. I wouldn't put too much into what he says.

<cough> <cough> Cold. Flu. anything keep you from touching me!

[Last Dakotan]

The question is this: Is it your own works that make you rightous or the work of someone else?

As a Catholic, my works are a reflection of my love for Christ.

However somebody judges them on Earth is not of my concern.

[ShadowAce]

Why is it they argue with us. They broke away from us. We wrote the Bible. We are agreed to what it says.

Nothing like a little pride to go with one's lunch, huh?

[The_Republic_Of_Maine]

"**In James, the half brother of Jesus** No, they were cousins."

Not according to the Bible, according to the Bible Jesus had brothers and at least one sister. See James chapter 6 1-3

[delchiante]

But both think they are talking to ‘non-believers’....

This is a mother/daughter fight...and what they share in common is a need to show how they are not alike...

And it is certainly evidence of a lack of the fruits of the spirit with some of the comments..

Mother/daughter battles are deep rooted and nasty at times, maybe all times..

Maybe I can unite the two sides with a focus on what they do share..

To my Catholic neighbors,
1.You have the entire world, not just protestants, observing the greco roman latin pope Gregory solar based calendar. Not what scripture says which would include timekeeping for appointed times using the sun,moon and stars -but somebody has to come up with a way to tell time and scripture apparently was not a preferred way to tell time.

2.You have, because of the pope gregory calendar, have the entire world observing the days of the week that you determine as work days and sabbaths. Most protestants also observe the papal greco roman latin sabbath, and some observe the calculated hebrew sabbath, which is still being calculated by using the pope gregory solar calendar...and the secular humanists like their weekends too..

3.You have, because of the pope gregory greco roman latin calendar, have the entire world, including the protestants, noting and in some fashion, observing the papal greco roman latin holy days of December 25 ( Christ Mass) and Easter..and those feasts that were shadows and the messiah and fulfilled by Him like Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, etc, are sort of ignored with just a solar calendar like the pope gregory greco roman Latin calendar.( as evidence that passover and easter can be in completely different times with no linkage)

4. You have, because of the claim authorship of the scriptures and the fact the whole world accepts the other premises, have also the entire world, including protestants, observing the greco roman latin named savior jesus. Born on December 25, killed on good friday and raised on easter Sunday.
A little different than the Messiah of Israael, born at an appointed time, circumcised at an appointed time, dedicated to the temple at an appointed time, baptised at an appointed time, killed on the appointed time of the feast of passover, and raised on first fruits, another appointed time of our Heavenly Fathers...

Lets be honest- that is four rather large foundational premises that your protestant daughters share with you, their mother (not to mention the whole world!)

Congrats!

Now, to my protestant neighbors,

You share in so much of the rules and premises that your mother church, the greco roman latin catholic church has given to the world, and placed in practice.. if you feel that she is soooo wrong, then why do you continue to live under her roof?

Mom’s roof, mom’s rules...

And again, to my Catholic neighbors- make sure you make them eat their peas..

And again, to my Protestant neighbors who despise their mother-maybe re-read Daniel 7:25, and look at Acts 7:45 and Hebrew 4:8 and see what name pops up in the different translations. Maybe re-read revelations too with a new perspective with some different premises in your head. and then, do as your mother says and eat your peas or move out...

[Apple Pan Dowdy]

"I’m really sorry somebody misinformed you. I’m a Catholic and I don’t know of any reason why you would not be considered a Christian. Of course you are a Christian."

Thank you, married21. It is indeed refreshing to hear that. It would be nice to hear the other FReeper Catholics say that as well. However many will NOT, and in fact call Protestants heretics.

You said, "we just don’t presume to outline a way for God to do that. It would be up to his mercy, and less likely, given the number of directions in which people could stray. (Like trying to learn to cook without someone helping you or providing a cookbook)."

Oh but, my FRiend, we Protestants DO have God's outline and directions.... it's called the Holy Bible. Why would we be less likely to be able to understand God's word and to follow it than you are?

Do you not see that you are participating in that "inter-faith antagonism" that you spoke of? But I do understand why you said what you said about we Protestants being without proper direction, because that's what men in your church has taught for centuries. To be honest, there are people in Protestant churches teaching that Catholics are the devil incarnate. But trust me, we are not all so ignorant as to believe that.

I have expressed this before here and I'll say it again....... faith is a personal relationship between a person and God and only God can know what is really in someone's heart. We can make a good guess because we see what someone professes and we see the fruits of their labors. I see testimonies and fruits in both Catholic and Protestants. I think perhaps you do too (witness your opening sentence). So mess it up by adding something to the effect that "but you Protestants will have a really hard time finding salvation".

[redhawk.44mag]

I’ve never had a conversation with a saint before, thanks

[redhawk.44mag]

What does no freewill regarding salvation actually mean?

[redhawk.44mag]

I don’t really know who is or isn’t in heaven,

[Gamecock]

***As a Catholic, my works are a reflection of my love for Christ.***

As a Christian my works are but filthy rags. Thankfully the works of Jesus are given to me as well!

[GeronL]

bump

[Gamecock]

This is the way I see Roman Catholicism. All Fluff. No Stuff.

[cuban leaf]

You have a profound misconception here ... Peter and Barnabas were led astray ... I suggest you read Galatians.

---

You’re right. I guess I mean “stay” following a false teaching. At least about salvation.

[BlueDragon]

We wrote the Bible. We are agreed to what it says. They have, As there are reported to be approximately 41,000 Christian denominations.

Yet same people show up with the same crap thread after thread. I swear.

Oh, the Irony

[cuban leaf]

What does no freewill regarding salvation actually mean?

---

There was actually a thread about it here a few months ago. I forget what it is called, but the argument is that your salvation is up to God, not you, as Pharo’s actions were up to God (hardened Pharo’s heart).

Or something like that.

[defconw]

Truth is truth. I don’t have to be humble about that. I am proud to be Catholic, not proud of all Catholics. It is what it is.

[Old Yeller]

I love it when folks like you try to tell Catholics what we believe. We are not a Church that believes in salvation by works. We believe in salvation by faith through the cross. But as you know, faith without works is dead. Works are the manifestation of faith. Works won’t earn you salvation; rather they are the fruit of faith.

You know, when I was a Catholic, I gave those same kind of responses just to get my Christian acquaintances from bugging me about it. I would say whatever it took to get them to leave me alone. Thank The Lord that he opened my eyes to the truth and rescued me from Catholicism at the age of 25 (32 years ago). Now I can truthfully make those statements.