Is Holy Communion Real or Symbolic?

Catholic in the Ozarks ^ | June 2, 2014 | Shane Schaetzel

[ifinnegan]

Did you not read my comments on this disagreement?

And, this is a thread aimed not at Catholics who accept transubstantiation, but those who don’t.

It even begins with a criticism (false) of Protestants.

I also think it is uninteresting and worthy thing to discuss the Bible.

[AppyPappy]

My daughter interned in a Methodist Church this past year and they took the leftover bread home and ate it.

[miss marmelstein]

Maybe it’s me. I just don’t understand what “I also think it is uninteresting and worthy thing to discuss the Bible.” What does that mean?

[miss marmelstein]

The picture is gorgeous. Catholicism is one of the most beautiful religions in the world - it is responsible for so much of what we consider Western Civilization. To ignore that is to ignore reality.

[ifinnegan]

Should say interesting, not uninteresting.

[The Grammarian]

Out of curiosity, what do Catholics do with it? Particularly, what do they do with it if they leave it alone long enough that it becomes moldy?

[Wyrd bið ful aræd]

"Except 4 verses later in 63 Jesus says he was speaking spiritually."

No. Jesus had just explained that His flesh is true food and His blood true drink. In verse 63 He said "the flesh," not His own flesh. Our flesh profits nothing, not His flesh. It would make no if He told the multitudes that His flesh is literla food, then told His disciples that He didn't really mean it. Whats more, many of His disciples left Him, because they understood that He meant His flesh was food indeed, not food in symbol.

"I’m not sure why you are claiming? Are you, or the Catholic Church, saying the wine is actual blood with erythrocytes and lymphocytes and cytokines etc...?"

The substance and reality of the wine are changed, the species is not. In other words, the wine becomes Christ's blood indeed, as He said. Its is transubstantiated, not transformed.

[AnAmericanMother]

Any remaining Precious Blood is consumed by the priest. The chalice is then rinsed with water and the water poured down a special sink (the "sacrarium") in the sacristy - the drain line runs into a dry well so that the earth receives any traces of the Blood rather than the common sewer.

Any remaining consecrated Hosts are reserved in a pyx in the Tabernacle (usually behind the high altar but sometimes in a separate chapel).

Because the wafers used for consecration are very thin, very crisp, and have minimal sugar content, they do not usually go moldy. If they were to do so, though, they would be dissolved in water and likewise poured down the sacrarium.

[Faith Presses On]

For Christians who believe in the Gospel and all of God's Word, Communion is holy, but it is also something of a mystery. Jesus gave His disciples at the Last Supper bread and wine, not His actual physical body. The actual sacrifice came later, and it wasn't a sacrifice of anyone eating His flesh, as He died, but was resurrected. The point of the Gospel is that we can't be justified by good works, but need the sacrifice of a Savior, and the sacrifice has to be that the person sinned against (God) is forgiving the sins of those who have sinned against Him. Other things to consider: Jesus also called Himself "the door of the sheep." Is he really a literal door, in earthly terms, then? No, He wasn't and isn't. But truly He is some type of door, in the Heavenly realm, in which when God made this world, doors here in the earthly realm would be a shadow of the Heavenly. Islam, in its rebellion, makes ridiculous claims that Christians believe absurdities because, they say, "can God have a son? can he be married and have relations with a woman?" They see God as needing to be a shadow of man, rather than man being patterned, albeit on a lower level, after God. This sort of thinking reminds a lot of the Islamic thinking. When questioned in John 6 about His saying on his flesh and blood, Jesus also spoke on His words. God is a different being than we are, in that His Word is life, and from it He can create, like He did this physical world, just by speaking. The Bible also talks about spiritual life, death and rebirth, and how can we completely understand such things, except that we can see it in people? In short, Christians who believe that Jesus is God's Son, that He came to earth, miraculously born of a Virgin, and His death was necessary to atone for our sins (we can't do it ourselves) and that He was bodily resurrected and lives today, have new life, and Communion is their remembrance of the price paid for their sin and rebellion so that they can escape eternal punishment for them, and for them to be restored to a relationship with God.

[Faith Presses On]

One other thing, too. In figures of speech, one can say that something is like something else (simile, I believe) or metaphor - that something *is* something else.

[AppyPappy]

f the bread is the literal flash of Christ, why do they worry about people who are gluten-intolerant?

[Tao Yin]

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

I agree that "This is my body" means that it is his body, but the idea of transubstantiation denies the bread and denies the wine.

Consubstantiation admits to the real presence, but does not deny the presence of the wine or bread. Of course there is still bread and still wine. Do our senses lie? If it appears to be bread and taste like bread, how can we say that there is no bread and only body. It's a fools errand.

Within the LCMS say that the body and the blood is with, in, and under the bread and wine. We do not deny the body and blood and we do not deny the bread and the wine. How is this possible? We don't know and that's okay.

[ifinnegan]

Let’s keep it simple, because there may be no disagreement at all.

Does the wine have erythrocytes (Red Blood cells) in it?

It seems you are saying, no. But it isn’t 100% clear.

[GreyFriar]

This particular article, in my view, is not so much for Catholics but to inform Protestants that they are wrong in how they view “the real presence” or lack of presence in the bread and wine of the Eucharist. The author is challenging Protestants in their belief in the Eucharist. Thus to have Protestants posting here is not ‘hateful’ but in making reply to their belief.

Cheers

[SeaHawkFan]

Care to cite a verse for that claim?

[miss marmelstein]

I can’t respond to these silly comments. So literal. It’s a matter of faith.

[NKP_Vet]

You are totally ignorant of Catholicism/Orthodox christians and has no idea what you are talking about.

[NKP_Vet]

“Most think Sheen was a kook. And, thus the sentiment for the Roman Church is real”

You mean most good ole boy evangelicals. Certainly not Catholics and certainly not the vast majority of anyone who ever heard him preach. And that includes all faiths.

[miss marmelstein]

I understand what you're saying. My point is simply my concern with Protestant freepers (evangelicals?)weird and unhealthy obsession with Catholicism.

[miss marmelstein]

Sadly, everything I ever learned about evangelicals, I learned right here at Free Republic.