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To: cuban leaf
And remember, according to the bible the road is narrow, meaning most people will not be saved, meaning the fate of the lost is the default condition for most of humanity. It implies that God continues to allow people to be born by the billions, knowing full well that most of them will not be saved. And if the eternal suffering message is true, this makes Him kinda creepy and sadistic.

No, it doesn't. In fact, the opposite is true: if God wants nothing but bliss and happiness for us, then why did He allow us to suffer on Earth (sometimes grievously--think of rape, torture, maimimg, etc.), even temporarily? Would you take your own child's hand and hold it to a burning stove, on the basis that "it was only temporary, and the pain will not last forever, and I have plenty of medicines and treatments to cure it"? I hope not...

No... you're missing the whole point: we're on Earth (conceived, born, live) for a REASON. We're here to learn to CHOOSE GOD FREELY. There is no such thing as God "forcing us to choose Him freely". For you to assume that God will "shovel us all into Heaven, wholesale" (even Satan and the demons!) is for you to assume one of three things:

1) God has created us as puppets, without free will (i.e. no evil choices will make any difference, in the end--we are incapable of choosing to reject Him), and every last law He gives us (and every punishment He exacts for violating that law) is a lie... since He's claiming that we're worthy of punishment for something which is His fault! In option #1, God is a puppet-master and a liar.

2) God is poised to force untold millions of free creatures to live eternally with Him, whether they want to do so or not. Don't you see? Those who do not love God would find Heaven to be more of a torment than Hell! If I shackle you to the person whom you most despise/dislike/hate in the world, would you be pleased? Would you enjoy an eternity of that? How much worse, when the infinite God cannot possibly be ignored or blocked out, and you were forced to sing His praises forever? In option #2, God is the equivalent of a slave-master and a rapist--forcing Himself on countless unwilling children.

3) God will "brainwash" us (or "reprogram" us, if you prefer) to be pleased with loving Him and praising Him forever. In option #3, God is enacting a farce which is a mere variation of #1.

Think this through! If hell is not real--if evil has no lasting consequence--then freedom is a lie, and love (which is the free choice to pursue the beloved's best good) cannot exist. There is only a puppet show... and a macabre one, at that.
94 posted on 06/04/2014 8:35:23 AM PDT by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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To: paladinan

Perhaps the concept of good and evil are just human traits, and God, being the almighty creator of all, has no need for it?


101 posted on 06/04/2014 8:52:30 AM PDT by redhawk.44mag (The problem with the world today, is that it wants to be digital, but it's really analog)
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To: paladinan

For you to assume that God will “shovel us all into Heaven, wholesale” (even Satan and the demons!)...


There may be a disconnect here. I believe that most are not saved and only the saved will experience eternal life. It is, after all, what the bible teaches.

My post was about the fate of the lost: those who DON”T enjoy eternal life. And my point is that they are simply destroyed, not tortured for linear time neverending. They don’t have eternal life. That is what the bible clearly teaches.


107 posted on 06/04/2014 9:00:31 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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