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To: ealgeone

ealgeone:

Can you identify anywhere in the NT where it lays out what a Church Liturgy [Worship] is to look like. I am not going to use your paradigm of “sola scriptura” which itself is unbiblical and contrary to reason and history as it has been shown that sola scriptura is nothing but every man[woman] for him/herself with respect to the Bible.

Christ founded a Church, that is clearly taught in scripture and he appointed Apostles who were sent and they further built the Church and passed on what they received from Christ to the next generation of Men appointed to Shepherd the Church, i.e. Bishops. The Church as Saint Paul states is the pillar and foundation of Truth [1 Timothy 3:15] and The Father sent the Holy Spirit as Christ promised to strengthen and guide the Church. The NT 27 books were written within and to the Church and it was those 2nd century Church Fathers who started the process to determine the canon of the NT [not finally settled until the 4th century]. While the Canon was being formed, the Church worshiped using Liturgy as evidence by the late 1st century work the Didache, Saint Justin Martyr in 150AD writes to the Romans what the CHristians did on Sunday and he outlines a Liturgy. In the East, we see the same thing in Saint Cyril of Jerusalem’s Catechetical Letters and in Saint John Crystostem writings as well. Thus Apostolic Tradition was passed from Christ to the Apostles to the Bishops who took over as the Apostles died and that Tradition came down in written form [NT canon] and via Creeds, Councils and Liturgy which expressed what the early Church believed because of how it worshiped God in the Divine Liturgy.

The Incarnation, as Pope Benedict stated, means we are tied to a place in time where Christ was incarnate. It gives us a concrete history and thus the way Liturgy developed from the place of Christ Incarnation, which was the union of 3 cultures, Roman-Greek and Jewish is the History willed by God. I Believe the Holy Spirit led those early Church Fathers, who new the Apostles to worship in an orthodox fashion.

For American protestants to think that worship in the early Church looked like the stuff that passes for worship in all of these groups is downright stupid, naïve, and arrogant all at the same time. In God’s providential plan, Christ was incarnate in a Roman-Greek Culture and the Jewish Liturgy was received into the early Church and it [the Church] formulated her Liturgy to worship the Holy Trinity and at the heart of that Liturgical worship was the Holy Eucharist.


38 posted on 06/09/2014 10:01:41 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: CTrent1564
Can you identify anywhere in the NT where it lays out what a Church Liturgy [Worship] is to look like.

No and neither can you.

Why I discount the "tradition" the RCC clings to centers a large part around the worship of Mary. parying to Mary, the immaculate conception, the assumption, the mother of God.

Not one of these ideas can be found in the NT writings of the Apostles. Not one.

Are you aware there is a movement in the RCC by some to have Mary declared as a co-redemtrix equal to Christ? The pope did an opinion poll and right now the support isn't there for this.

However, it took from the earliest form of the church to 1950 for the pope to declare the assumption of Mary. Was the church wrong on this issue for the first 1950 years of her life? Or did the "traditon" become so accepted over time that there was enough support for the pope to declare this as dogma?

If we're doing this we're making stuff up now.

If you allow this then how can you say to the Mormons they are wrong? Maybe it's just another revelation. I personally don't believe that, but my point is that over time things have changed in the RCC with what they believe.

So why should I take the RCC's word that they have the authority when they get this wrong?

There are also the changes in RCC thought between VI and VII.

The Gospel of Christ hasn't changed. It will not change unless man changes it and even then it hasn't changed. It's only become corrupted. The RCC has taken a number of verses and twisted them like a pretzel to get out of them what they want.

Here is a question: Can you read John chapter 3 and learn what you need to know about how to have salvation?

The didache has a number of non-biblical items in it as well. Have you read it and comapred it to the New Testament?

I could go on, but you should get the idea.

Yes, I belive we should only use the Bible as it is the only document we have that is inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is the Word that was left by the Apostles so we could learn about salvation, God, the church. It contains all we need to know about having the relationship with God.

40 posted on 06/09/2014 10:42:23 AM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
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