Pope Francis calls for abolishing death penalty and life imprisonment

catholicnews.com ^ | Oct-23-2014 | Francis X. Rocca

[ebb tide]

Maybe Francis could house the Gitmo prisoners, once they’re released, in the papal apartments.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"... but now dislike what is publicly being promulgated and reject the “Vicar of Christ’s” opinions."

Ah, but the Pope's "opinions" are not in any way privileged in terms of what the faithful must or must not think. There have been stupid popes. Stupid popes spout stupid opinions. There have been corrupt popes. Corrupt popes spout corrupt opinions. The Holy Spirit neither annihilates their personalities, nor guarantees their whims, nor deprives them of their free will, when they become popes. Thus they are as subject to error as Dutchboy88 or Mrs. Don-o Her! Very! Self! :o/

In matters disciplinary, they are to be obeyed--- and why? Beause they are lawful superiors--- and as with any legitimate superior, that means, in commands which do not constitute sin. They may constitute foolishness --- or wisdom for that matter --- but if it's mere foolish in our opinion, they are still to be obeyed. They may be based on faulty information --- or on wonderfully complete and accurate information. But if it's just a matter of different assessments of "information," (prudential judgment),they are to be obeyed.

This is simply because they have lawful authority --- an analogy would be a military commander in relation to the enlisted men--- to be obeyed for the sake of unity and good order, BUT NOT IN SIN. If a Pope were to command what God precisely forbids, or forbid what God precisely commands, then it's obviously a no-go.

Example: Pope says to Cardinal Burke: leave your job as Top Canonical Judge, I'm gong to make you chaplain of an old folks' home at Our Lady of the Mudhole in Lower Slobovia. It would be a stupid move on the Pope's part, but Burke would obey because it's not a sin to be a chaplain for the geriatric faithful.

However if the Pope were to say, "Burke, I want you to write up an interpretation of Canon Law that says divorced people can form subsequent, adulterous unions with new partners, and that's no detriment to Communion," Burke would be morally obliged to say, in a word, "NO." "No, Holy Father. Neither you nor I, nor anyone on earth has the authority to do that."

However, the Pope will not command --- in a fully authoritative sense, explicitly intended as binding on the whole Church --- any error. Why? Because God would stop him, maybe by giving him wondrous miraculous laryngitis like poor old Zachariah, maybe by stopping him dead.

That's what "infallibility" consists of. It is not positive inspiration (like the Holy Spirit telling Matthew, Mark, Luke and John what to say.) It is a strictly negative safeguard. It is the way God protects His beloved Church from the worst possible effects of bad popes.

Have you seen "How to Explain Papal Infallibility in Under Two Minutes"? (LINK)

Let me recommend it. It's worth your 2 minutes. Have a chuckle. Zany but true.

[stevio]

I questioned my priest years ago on why it was wrong to use capital punishment. He said because we now have the ability to lock them up for good. Oh well, I guess that philosophy is out the window.

[pleasenotcalifornia]

Fascinating story about meeting Charlie Manson, wasn't Vincent Bugliosi convinced Manson was pure evil? How did you find him in this regard?
Was Rose Bird instrumental in making California's death penalty illegal during Manson's time?
The Pope must be extremely naive if he doesn't think a human being can be evil for the remainder of their lifetime and cause great harm until the day they die.

[Mark17]

I am not sure if Rose Bird helped get rid of the death penalty, but she overturned a bunch of them after ithe death penalty was reinstated. I think Bugliosi was a bit of lunatic, as he wanted to put W on trial, as I recall. Manson is as crazy for real, as he appears on TV. It is not an act that he puts on.

[Arthur McGowan]

Right.

Just some wishful thinking.

The hierarchies of all the countries that have legalized abortion in the last forty years will someday be viewed as we view the German bishops who snuggled up to Hitler. Those who have refused to snuggle with pro-aborts are in the distinct minority.

[Lurker]

Somebody shut this clown up. Please.

[piusv]

Oh, I know.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

Anyway, there was no "church" prior to the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, my dead FRiend.

“Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will bed bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will bee loosed in heaven.” --Jesus

"If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector." --Jesus

Jesus was alive when he spoke these words.

"Binding and loosing" was a rabbinical phrase meaning the authority to forbid by an indisputable authority, and to permit by an indisputable authority.

A body that teaches with an indisputable authority must be visible and united in teaching. Otherwise, logically speaking, how could any doctrinal disagreement be settled? And what authority would Christ's Churh have, if any random grouping of Christians could overrule the Church's Teaching?

Moreover, Jesus, as king of the eternal, redeemed, Kingdom of David or Kingdom of Heaven...

These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.

Gives the "keys of the kingdom" to Peter...

And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will bed bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will bee loosed in heaven.”

The key of David or the Davidic kingdom was...

An oversized key that the Davidic King gave to his majordomo. In the king's absence, the majordomo or chamberlain had full authority over the kingdom of David, with the power to "bind and loose."

I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

Of course, the “Vicar of Christ”, the one in the seat of Peter...

Logically speaking, does the Church teach infallibly when you say it does, or when the Church says it does?

As a Catholic I am obligated to follow the Teaching of Christ's Church, as Jesus mandated.

Infallibility - Catechism of the Catholic Church.

[Dutchboy88]

This is that same worn out saw your organization has been playing for several hundred years...too bad you folks won’t read the rest of the story.