Posted on 12/21/2014 10:40:32 AM PST by NYer
No. It’s islam. Next question.
I don`t think God would have to warn his people, the Christians to come out of Islam.
After reading these chapters more I still don’t see the term “Babylon Mystery Religion”. There is a “mystery” from “Babylon” in 17:5, but the word “religion” isn’t there. Although arguably it’s referring to a religion of Babylon.
It seems to me chapters 17 and 18 are warning against Christians falling into the trap of secularism, wherever it may be, not to come out of any one particular religion per se. (Although that would go hand in hand)
It seems to me to be a general warning against secularism though because all the terms used in these chapters describe the results of secularism.
The Kings of the earth have fornicated with the harlot (17:2). This is representing the time then (Rome) and the countries to come who have or will forsake truth of Christ for a lie.
In 17:4 we can see a foretelling of the persecution of martyrs by Rome and how Rome eventuall will fall. (Remember at this time the term “Babylon” meant “Rome” to the early Christians it was kind of a code, but it didn’t mean the religion of Rome it meant the government, the military state thereof). Also that verse foretells how any nation state that opposes Christianity will fall eventually.
There are many verses that have a dual meaning of referring to the Roman state of the day, predicting it’s downfall, and also have a future meaning for today, that all secular states that persecute Christians in one way or the other will fail and fall eventually. Along with those that support such secularism. (17:8)
This becomes more clear in chapter 18. 18:4 is urging all Christians to avoid succombing to the state’s will, which would have Christians compromise in some way or another. Remember at that time too, like today but much more severe, Christians were asked to comlrimise their faith by the Roman government which said to them you must worship our gods and either renounce yours or at least worship ours first (depending on the Ceasar at the time). So that’s what these verses are warning against to not give up the faith even in the time of persecution. It’s not necessarily saying to leave an organized religion for another one less organized or to forsake organized religion all together (which I have heard others apply it in that way).
Certainly it warns against falling into false religions but it’s not warning religions are false just because they are organized as again I’ve heard people claim.
It really seems to me to be encouraging the martyrs at the time and even today. To clarify for them and us today that all who are persecuted should not give up hope, lest we too fall into the same sins the secularists then and today commit. Again remember “Babylon” referred to the Roman government at the time but it can apply to any secularized government even today.
So it’s a dual message predicting the fall of Rome back then and the more general victory of Christ over all the nations when He returns in glory.
Papias, quoted by Eusebius, says that Matthew wrote in Jerusalem, in "Hebrew" (maybe Aramaic). The original Hebrew text, if there was one, hasn't survived.
but the word “religion” isn’t there.
It might be no more than what you say, I surly don`t know.
Christians already know to worship God instead of the world, whether they do it or not, so why the peculiar explanation of who she is?
Why would we have to be told to come out of her?
Mathew 24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
The false prophets were already here when the Apostles were preaching the gospel but how much worse were they going to be?
2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse,
Could it be beyond our belief just how many there may be and who they may be, we have been warned.
Why would it matter if it never had anything to do with Christianity? Christians were already being killed for their faith so why would Jesus or Paul be warning about that?
It is plain that Jesus was warning against false doctrine.
Why would John wonder with admiration if it was something he was already familiar with, and he surly knew what secularism or worldliness was.
And if the whore is a secular power it would just be a secular power among secular powers.
The ten kings give their power to the beast to destroy the whore, them giving their power to the beast indicates they are nothing more than a secular power them selves.
And notice that the ten kings were not even here at the time of the writing but is here at the time of the beast.
Also the golden cup and the fact that the whore was drunken on the blood of the saints does not indicate a secular power, why would unbelievers have any thing to do with the blood of the saints?
The blood of the saints could be the wine which the Church teaches actually turns into the blood of Christ.
I don`t know but could they be using the blood of the saints which would be Christ`s blood to deceive the world in other matters?
Could false doctrine be connected to drunkenness?
It is hard to find an answer on this but some say that the Catholic Church has many thousands of golden cups.
Cups, wine. blood, drunken, mystery Babylon. it is hard for me to see it as anything but religion.
Why do you take stuff like "golden cup" so literally, but insist that "great city" can't actually mean "great city," but must mean "church" or "religion"?
Why do you take stuff like “golden cup” so literally, but insist that “great city” can’t actually mean “great city,” but must mean “church” or “religion”?
“Those who assume that any contact between biblical and pagan beliefs can only lead to paganization of biblical teaching should note that there’s very good reason to think the Magi’s beliefs were a mix of Persian astrology and messianic ideas floating around their country, courtesy of the significant Jewish population that had lived there since the days of Nebuchadnezzar, five centuries before.”
That’s an interesting thought. There is, of course, the famous prophecy in Daniel of the 70 weeks, that includes a timeline to the coming of the Messiah. Perhaps some of these easterners were familiar with that prophecy and that is why they were looking for a sign in the heavens about the birth of the “Jewish King” at that particular time.
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