Posted on 03/20/2015 9:46:29 AM PDT by NYer
You mean like the man made traditions of Sola Scriptura and OSAS?
The definition of Christian is a follower of Christ. Catholics follow the Catholic Church.
Catholics sure do fear following scripture alone don't they. And given they can't be assured of salvation at any stage while they are alive is it any wonder they deny OSAS? They would evidently deny that even their so called "saints" can't be assured of OSAS.
Repeating a felicity will NEVER make it true. Have a good est of the day.
So you really believe that everything that Jesus and the Apostles taught was written down. So 100% of the Whole Truth is in the Bible?
Just like your convoluted and contorted interpretations of the words of Jesus in the Bible, your non acceptance of tradition seems counter to logic.
Do you not realize that the teachings of Jesus, the Apostles and their successors were based on tradition of what was spoken and later written down in the Books of the Bible? Do you also not accept that the Holy Spirit is with us to guide us and our Bishops to understand God’s will.
What about matters that Jesus told the Apostles that they would not understand, yet the Holy Spirit would enlighten them later?
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
13* But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth.h
He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.
14He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
15Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you. John 16
If you really seek the Truth, you can find it in the Catholic Church.
Peace be with you.
Now, all you have to do is prove from an infallible source that the apostles taught everything the Catholic Church teaches. If you can not, we are to regard them as accursed.
Now, all you have to do is prove from an infallible source that the Catholic Church teaches something the apostles didn't teach. If you can not, we are not to regard them as accursed.
Love,
O2
Thank goodness the freepathon is over so I don't have to keep pointing people to my tagline.
What kind of convoluted thinking is that? Catholics, Muslims and Mormons all claim they have extra Biblical information. Not one of them can show that the apostles taught what they teach.
Your comment: “Now, all you have to do is prove from an infallible source that the apostles taught everything the Catholic Church teaches. If you can not, we are to regard them as accursed. “
Then your statements(teachings) must be accursed. Your convoluted statement is irrational and illogical like your personal interpretations.
Jesus told us that he will be with His Church (the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church) until the end of time and he gave His Church the authority to bind on earth.
I post scripture not my interpretation. If you can't show that the apostles taught what the Catholic Church teaches just say so. Muslims, Mormons, and Catholics all use extra Biblical beliefs. Just admit it and don't worry what scripture says.
Your convoluted statement is irrational and illogical like your personal interpretations.
To your first question, Protestants don't believe that. John 21:25 tells us that not everything was recorded. To your second question, the answer is yes. We hold that Scripture contains all the truth necessary for our justification and sanctification. We also hold that Deuteronomy 29:29 still applies and some things are not meant for man to know. That's why Protestants don't get too upset when Scripture seems silent on some issue. We are confident that if it were essential for either our justification or sanctification, the Holy Spirit would have made it known.
your non acceptance of tradition seems counter to logic
Is it illogical for a court of law to give supremacy to written contract provisions rather than subsequent oral addendums? Of course not, for the written is far more reliable than the oral.
Do you not realize that the teachings of Jesus, the Apostles and their successors were based on tradition of what was spoken and later written down in the Books of the Bible?
Once the teachings are committed to writing, the need for oral tradition is negated.
Do you also not accept that the Holy Spirit is with us to guide us and our Bishops to understand God’s will.
Protestants do not believe that your bishops have any more access to the Holy Spirit than the humblest of believers.
What about matters that Jesus told the Apostles that they would not understand, yet the Holy Spirit would enlighten them later?
Would these not be the epistles? The Holy Spirit gave inspiration to the writers to write on these issues after Christ's ascension.
You have agreed that every word from Christ is not in the bible. Someone heard those words. Someone passed those words down. You are the one who imposed the standard of proof. You cannot live by ‘every word that comes from the mouth of God’ unless you accept someone’s tradition about what those words were. You have no proof that the Catholic tradition does not pass down those words, yet you condemn those that believe it does.
I understand that you don’t believe in Catholic tradition, but you are being hypocritical if you demand proof that I am right to believe it when you cannot provide to me proof that I am wrong.
Love,
O2
Well then make up whatever you want and claim it to be so. The Muslims do it, the Mormons it, and the Catholics do it. I see a trend.
>>I understand that you don’t believe in Catholic tradition, but you are being hypocritical if you demand proof that I am right to believe it when you cannot provide to me proof that I am wrong.<<
I can't even believe an intelligent adult would make a comment like that.
Discuss the issues all you want but do not make it personal.
Making a declaration about another poster is making it personal.
“So you really believe that everything that Jesus and the Apostles taught was written down.”
Statements such as the above should be presented as a question, otherwise they are mindreading—posted as if they are a fact about another poster.
“Perhaps I should have been more specific and said non believer in the Church Christ established (it was implied).”
That would have been clearer.
This is what you posted:
“So you state, A true non believer in the Bible and tradition.”
In answer to this:
“There is no way the Catholic Church can be the ekklesia Christ began”
The “implication” wasn’t clear.
On open threads, posters can disagree with other posters’ belief systems.
Posters are not required to believe “the Catholic Church is the one true Church established by Jesus Christ (clearly established in the Bible and tradition)” or that any other specific belief system is such. Both may be seen as opinions.
I am not trying to make it personal, only replying to posters statements. I will try harder to make it non personal.
Thank you for your support.
You are not addressing the question, so I have to believe that you cannot.
You have conceded that Jesus and the apostles taught some things that are not written. The Catholic Church has preserved those teachings in its traditions, most of which were not questioned by those who originally broke away, but have been denied by those who came after solely because the Catholic Church holds them as truth, and many will disagree with anything the Catholic Church teaches.
You may question my intelligence all you want, but you are the one who is evading the point.
Love, O2
I did what? Where did I do that? If you thought I did you would be mistaken. I have consistently maintained that there is no way to know what the apostles taught that wasn't written down.
>>The Catholic Church has preserved those teachings in its traditions<<
Prove it. Prove from and infallible souce that what the Catholics Church today teaches as "tradition" is exactly what the apostles were talking about when they talked about "tradition".
>>You may question my intelligence all you want, but you are the one who is evading the point.<<
Evading the point? Comments like "when did you stop beating your wife?" don't deserve answers.
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