Posted on 04/10/2016 6:00:17 PM PDT by grumpa
BIBLIANO and AMIGO: Discussions on Eschatology (Lesson #7, Understanding Biblical Judgment Language)
AMIGO: I know we covered the New Heaven and New earth in previous lessons, but I just can’t get past 2 Peter 3. Aren’t you terrified of a coming destruction of the universe?
BIBLIANO: As we discussed in detail, my friend, contrary to popular opinion, 2 Peter 3 is not at all about the destruction of the planet or the universe.
AMIGO: Wow. Yes, you convinced me the New Heaven and New Earth is about the change of the covenants. But 2 Peter 3 just SOUNDS so much like the destruction of the everything. The heavenly bodies will melt with fervent heat and the earth will be burned up and dissolved! Can’t you read English?
BIBLIANO: First of all, not every English translation reads like that. Indeed, there is much variability in how this section is translated. For example, some translations say, essentially, that the “ELEMENTS” WILL FACE JUDGMENT (OR BE EXPOSED). That is quite a bit different from destruction of the planets. Listen, every instance where it is used in the New Testament, “elements” (Greek STOICHEION) is clearly about theological things—the basic elements of the old covenant. So it fits in perfectly with the AD 70 judgment against old-covenant Israel.
AMIGO: Show me.
BIBLIANO: Galatians 4:3, 9, Colossians 2:8, 20-22, and Hebrews 5:12-13 are the only other passages that contain STOICHEION. A serious reading of 2 Peter 3 indicates that Peter expected this judgment to happen very soon. It is also evident elsewhere in his writing (see 1 Peter 4:7, 17). All of these passages are consistent with others such as 1 Corinthians 7:31 in which Paul said that the “FORM of the world” was passing away—not literal creation. The dissolution of the old covenant order was just about to happen in finality when the writer of Hebrews said that old covenant “was growing old and about to vanish away.” (Hebrews 8:13)
AMIGO: But if this is not to be understood literally, why would Peter put this in code?
BIBLIANO: It sounds like code to you because (a) you never cross-checked this against these other New Testament passages, and (b) you don’t know your Old Testament. Peter’s original Jewish audience would have understood clearly that this language about disruptions in the created order is symbolic. It is standard symbolic biblical judgment language.
AMIGO: How so?
BIBLIANO: All through the Old Testament the writers used language of cosmic disturbances to signify God’s power or coming judgments. In Psalm 18:15 we see “the foundations of the world were laid bare” (with angels, clouds, hailstones, and fire). In Isaiah 13:13 God would “make the heavens tremble and the earth shaken out of its place,” describing judgment against Babylon. In Isaiah 19:1, God would come “riding on a swift cloud” in judgment against Egypt. In Isaiah 24:19, 23 “the earth is utterly broken and the moon will be confounded” to explain the judgment against Jerusalem. In Isaiah 34:4 “the skies roll up like a scroll” in judgment against Edom.
AMIGO: So would you say that the Bible is using word pictures?
BIBLIANO: Exactly. And there is much more. Deuteronomy 4:24 (and other texts) describes God’s jealousy as a “consuming fire.” Joel 2:31 says that the moon would “turn to blood”(with fire and smoke) which Peter explained in Acts 2 applied to what was happening at Pentecost. In Micah 1:2-16 we see that the Lord would “come down” and the “mountains will melt under Him” in judgment against Israel and Judah. In Nahum 1:2-6 the “clouds are the dust of Yahweh’s feet” as “He rebukes the sea, the hills melt, and the earth heaves before Him.” This was in judgment against Nineveh. In Zephaniah 1:2-18 the text actually says that God would “utterly sweep away everything from the face of the earth” and “all the earth shall be consumed” even though this judgment is particularized against Judah, Jerusalem, and Judah’s enemies. There are many more examples.
AMIGO: I have really been in the dark, haven’t I? But I just WANT to take these declarations literally!
BIBLIANO: You mean like the moon turning to blood?
AMIGO: OK I get it. I can see that I really need to study this more closely. Look, how come nobody ever pointed these things out to me before?
BIBLIANO: No comment.
http://prophecyquestions.com/2014/02/01/articles-by-charles-meek as well as my Facebook site Evangelical Preterism.
"There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this."--Isaiah 9:7
I appreciate these discussions. There is absolutely no “judgment” for believers. Romans 8:1. Judgment makes no sense since we were saved by grace on the cross if we simply believe in Jesus as the Son of God ( John 3:16-18) . “Judgement” legalism is contrived and promoted for control and to get your money to pay the mortgages and car payments of the “professional Christians” . There is no judgment because you were already pardoned. Refute that!!
I am pretty sure that whatever is going to happen or not happen will happen with or without my permission. I do not even have to understand what Is going or isnt going to happen, as It will happen or not happen in accordance with what does occur or does not occur. My opinion is probably wrong, definitely useless and equally irrelevant.
What about the Law of Double Reference? As in Antiochus Epiphanes vs the coming Antichrist?
As the post says, this has nothing to do with the destruction of the universe. The New Heaven and New Earth are describing the new relationship between heaven and earth under the new covenant. Everything is different - and fully restored to the conditions with Adam and Eve before the first sin.
Please, do not miss this point - we are now living in the new heaven and new earth under the new covenant.
certainly not. This earth is controlled and manipulated by Satan himself. We literally live on the planet hell. it will all be wiped away and will never again be brought to mind. All things will be made new. This is just a shadow. A broken shadow.
Who names their kids Bibliano and Amigo?
Amigo's script writers lean toward the melodramatic.
BIBLIANO: You mean like the moon turning to blood?
AMIGO: Yeah, that would be kind of cool.
God created the earth, and it was good. He created man and he was very good. God restored man to a right relationship by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. Thus, God restored all things to their original - created state. Man, God, heaven, and the earth are now fully restored. Please, do not start thinking that things are evil and only spirit is good. This is a dead-end street. What God has created is good - but only God can restore its goodness. Celebrate that this work is now complete, and we are free and perfected (through Jesus) before God. Otherwise, the work of Jesus was not sufficient.
He isn’t done yet. He’ll be back to crush evil and restore the physical. Still lots to crush.
apparently you’ve never been to Southern California
The devil was in the garden before the fall, and he is still here now. The difference is that those in Jesus are free of the death penalty - free to love those also free - and free to love and worship God without the taint of sin.
Wow!!
Preterist nonsense.
Really?? They asked Jesus when these things would take place, and he said this generation would see it all.
Is that really nonsense???
Oh, I know. He wasn’t REALLY talking about them. But throughout the letters they expressed great expectation that it was coming soon. Were all of them wrong and you are right?
Please, don’t dismiss the truth without really looking.
Believing that nothing has change means that, for you, Christ came for nothing!
All things are new in Him - Hallelujah!
bttt
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