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To: ADSUM; metmom; imardmd1; daniel1212; Iscool; Salvation; Elsie; mdmathis6; boatbums; Mark17; ...
You informed, "Catholics believe that Christ founded a visible Church—which subsists in the Catholic Church—and has protected its doctrines from error." Perhaps the very root of the difference in the religion known as catholiciism, and real Christianity.

The CHURCH (*Ekklesia) Jesus is building is not a 'visible' church, it is a spiritual church, a Body of those who believe in Jesus as The One God sent for our salvation. Here is what JESUS said about spirit:

6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Don’t be astonished that I told you, ‘All of you must be born from above.’ 8 The wind blows where it wants to. You hear its sound, but you don’t know where it comes from or where it is going. That’s the way it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”John 3

And here is what JESUS said of spiritual birth (not an institutional thing like catholiciism):

3 Jesus replied to him, “Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus asked him, “How can a person be born when he is old? He can’t go back into his mother’s womb a second time and be born, can he?”
5 Jesus answered, “Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Don’t be astonished that I told you, ‘All of you must be born from above.’

As to WHO is protecting from error, catholiciism is racked with blasphemous rituals, yet we have the Word of God in the Bible, so we may rightly concluded that it is GOD Who protects from error ... and yet the Catholic Bible, the Douey-Reims Bible, has changes made to the Word of GOD in their institutional attempt to give foundation to their heresies -- like the change in Genesis which has been brought to your attention on more than one occasion.

188 posted on 08/29/2016 4:59:15 AM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for spiritual discernment)
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To: MHGinTN
As to WHO is protecting from error, catholiciism is racked with blasphemous rituals, yet we have the Word of God in the Bible, so we may rightly concluded that it is GOD Who protects from error ... and yet the Catholic Bible, the Douey-Reims Bible, has changes made to the Word of GOD in their institutional attempt to give foundation to their heresies -- like the change in Genesis which has been brought to your attention on more than one occasion.

Since the Bible, the revealed word of God, is Truth, it contains no error and because it does not change, it doesn't need to be promised to be protected from error. Cause it's TRUTH.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

The claim that Jesus promised to protect the Catholic church from error in doctrine or the pope from error when speaking about faith and morals, is a vain bid to try to force people to accept whatever it says, even if it contradicts Scripture or itself from previous pronouncements.

They knew that everything didn't always fit and to claim that their sacred tradition was on par with the God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired Scripture, they had to come up with something to snow the masses. Stuff like the concept *doctrinal development*, for example, aside from the previous claims. (Which was a great move on Newman's part as it gave lots of Catholics an easy out for something that could not be rationalized away)

God NEVER promised one church in all of Scripture that it was free from error. On the contrary, a casual reading of Scripture, just the book of Acts even, shows that error was creeping in from almost the very beginning.

By the 15th chapter of Acts, they were already having the Council at Jerusalem to deal with error creeping into the church.

If more churches stuck to the word itself, there wouldn't be a problem with error. It's the ones which have stopped believing that the Bible is the word of God and is enough which have fallen into error the fastest.

Once a church started teaching that any part of it is fairy tales or didn't really happen, it was just allegory, the descent has begun.

193 posted on 08/29/2016 5:38:32 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: MHGinTN

Your comment: “Perhaps the very root of the difference in the religion known as catholiciism, and real Christianity.”

The Catholic Church has been here for 2000 years and the other christian church left the Catholic Church over doctrine or split off from the other protestant churches, some 30,000+ different churches.

We know from elsewhere in Scripture Jesus clearly intends his church to be visible with a hierarchical structure. Take for example Matthew 16:18-19: Jesus promises to make Peter the rock upon which he will build his church, which indicates Jesus’ intention for Peter to be the visible foundation for the Church of Christ on Earth—a visible marker that identifies Jesus’ true church. Wherever the foundation is, there is the true church.

Jesus also gives Peter the keys of the kingdom (Matt. 16:19). In the Jewish tradition, the image of the keys signifies a governing role in the Davidic kingdom known as the royal steward (see Isa. 22:15-22). If Peter is a governor, then there must be a society to govern. Sounds like a visible and hierarchical church to me.

In another passage in Matthew, Jesus makes it clear the church, and not the individual, is the final court of appeal when it comes to settling disputes among Christians:

“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matt. 18:15-18).

If Jesus doesn’t intend for there to be a visible and hierarchical governing body of officials, and the church were merely an invisible community of believers, then what sense can be made of him saying, “Take it to the church”? Furthermore, since Gentiles and tax collectors were considered outcasts, Jesus’ use of these terms for those that disobey the church signifies visible boundaries for church membership.

You seem to select certain passages that do not address the issue and without fully understanding the whole story. The post states fallible opinion which addresses the spiritual needs of the individual to accept the spirit and not the flesh. It doesn’t support an invisible church.

Jesus established one church, the Catholic Church, and constituted it as visible and hierarchical. And because he desires all men to become members of that church, he works in the lives of those outside the Church’s visible boundaries in order to draw them into the unity his Church possesses.

The rest of the story....
http://www.catholic.com/blog/karlo-broussard/does-being-catholic-matter


205 posted on 08/29/2016 5:49:22 AM PDT by ADSUM
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To: MHGinTN; ADSUM
The CHURCH (*Ekklesia) Jesus is building is not a 'visible' church, it is a spiritual church...

Matt 5:14-16

263 posted on 08/29/2016 7:14:36 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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