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To: Mrs. Don-o
"... to put Tradition over the Holy Scriptures is a rule of Catholic Doctrine." This is untrue. Holy Scripture is a part of Sacred Tradition.

OK Try Mark 6:3 "Then they scoffed, "He's just a carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon. And his sisters live right here among us." They were deeply offended and refused to believe in him."

Convince us that James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon were not his Step-Brothers through Mary and that he at least had two Step-Sisters also by Mary according to this verse.

Have at it.

13 posted on 06/11/2017 1:53:10 PM PDT by CptnObvious
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To: CptnObvious

This is something I have gone over a dozen times, and in detail, on this Forum. But I can’t link to it handily on my Kindle.

You can save me the time and effort by googling “MRS DON-O” JESUS BROTHERS ADELPHOI and it’ll turn up most episodes of this ongoing discussion instantly for your perusal.

Afterwards, if you have any further questions, do get back to me.


16 posted on 06/11/2017 2:37:03 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (The Church of the Living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. (1 Tim 3:15))
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To: CptnObvious

Oh. And “according to this verse”? Neither this verse nor any other verse in the Bible calls these individuals Sons of Mary or Children of Mary.

Mary having other offspring comes up only at the end of Rev. 12. The offspring there referred to, includes you and me.

you and me.


17 posted on 06/11/2017 2:42:07 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (The Church of the Living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. (1 Tim 3:15))
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To: CptnObvious

Those were cousins, close relatives.


27 posted on 06/11/2017 5:54:56 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: CptnObvious

Convince us that James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon were not his Step-Brothers through Mary and that he at least had two Step-Sisters also by Mary according to this verse.


Step brothers and sisters are not related, if they were step brothers they must have been Joseph`s children by a former wife.

John 19
25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen.

26 When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son.

27 After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own.

If Mary had other children this would make no sense at all.

Also notice.
40 And there were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalen, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joseph, and Salome:

Mary was the wife of Cleopas who was the father of Joses and James.

These two were called Jesus`s brethren but it is plain they had a different mother and father.

There are many scriptures which show that the brethren of Jesus show no belief in him, that would be the attitude of older brethren not younger.

I see no absolute proof either way but the scriptures indicate to me that Jesus was Mary`s only child.


53 posted on 06/12/2017 11:56:58 AM PDT by ravenwolf (If the Bible does not say it in plain words, please don`t preach it to me.)
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To: CptnObvious
FYI...One little correction...they would have been Jesus' HALF-brothers/sisters as offspring of Mary and Joseph. If they were his STEP-siblings, it would mean they did not have a biological mother or father in common with him. Some people actually believe that IF these named brothers and sisters of Jesus were not just his cousins and were actual brothers/sisters then they were children of Joseph from another marriage. That would make them step-brothers and step-sisters.

I have both, two step-sisters and a half-brother in my family.

104 posted on 06/12/2017 10:01:18 PM PDT by boatbums (Authority has a way of descending to certitude, and certitude begets hubris.)
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To: CptnObvious
That is the perfect illustration of elevating tradition over scripture ... the so-called RC hermeneutic. There was already a Greek word for 'cousin' ... ἀνεψιὸς ... used by Paul in Colossians 4:10. If the Holy Spirit wanted Mark to use the word cousin He would have inspired him to do so. Further, there was also a generic word for 'relative' συγγενίς, used in Luke 1:36 to describe Elizabeth. The HS could have inspired Mark to use that term as well to describe James, et. al.

But in order to maintain the tradition of the perpetual virgin, the RC hermeneutic is applied to make brothers mean cousins ... and there is nothing you could say to a RC to convince them otherwise. Some on these forums will just throw it back at you and mutter to themselves in writing why you hate the virgin mother.

It is exactly what Jesus condemned the Pharisees for doing in Mark 7:9 ...

He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition." NASB

168 posted on 06/13/2017 7:14:13 AM PDT by dartuser
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To: CptnObvious; daniel1212; metmom; Springfield Reformer
OK Try Mark 6:3 "Then they scoffed, "He's just a carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon. And his sisters live right here among us."

You have a point. If these 'brothers and sisters' were other than brothers and sisters and just kin of any sort, the word that would be used would most likely be syggenēs. As was used in Luke 1:36 for the relationship between Mary and Elizabeth.

syngenḗs, soong-ghen-ace'; from G4862 and G1085; a relative (by blood); by extension, a fellow countryman:—cousin, kin(-sfolk, -sman). (https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4773&t=KJV)

Yet in Mark 6:3, as you quoted, the relational word is adelphos which clearly indicating, at the very least, sharing one parent:

adelphós, ad-el-fos'; from G1 (as a connective particle) and δελφύς delphýs (the womb); a brother (literally or figuratively) near or remote (much like G1):—brother.

Outline of Biblical Usage: I.a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother.

None of the Biblical usages indicate distant relative or closer kin (aka cousin). (https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G80&t=KJV)

If one wanted to 'strain a gnat' the best they could come up with as an alternative translation would be national kinsmen or ancestor and brother in Christ, which does not apply to the text.

185 posted on 06/13/2017 9:21:22 AM PDT by redleghunter (Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation)
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