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To: ebb tide
One of the flaws of Catholic church polity is that there are times when the Pope can claim he has had a "message from God" and his proclamations in the matter then have the force of scripture.

For example the Eastern Church, and the Protestant churches are at odds with a fairly recent (1854) Catholic proclamation about a new Catholic doctrine called "the immaculate conception" which is generally regarded to be unscriptural.

Because of the Pope claiming to speak for God, such anomalies can't easily be corrected. It is one of the sticking points against the reunification of the Roman Church with the Eastern Church, after the schism of 1054.

2 posted on 08/18/2017 8:02:40 AM PDT by Governor Dinwiddie
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To: Governor Dinwiddie
One of the flaws of Catholic church polity is that there are times when the Pope can claim he has had a "message from God" and his proclamations in the matter then have the force of scripture.

That's not an accurate description of the extraordinary Papal magisterium at all. An ex cathedra dogmatic definition is not a "message from God". Technically, neither a dogmatic definition by the Pope nor one by an ecumenical council "have the force of Scripture". They are preserved from error -- a merely negative claim -- while Scripture is inspired, a higher claim of authority which means that Scripture says precisely what God wished to be said.

For example the Eastern Church, and the Protestant churches are at odds with a fairly recent (1854) Catholic proclamation about a new Catholic doctrine called "the immaculate conception" which is generally regarded to be unscriptural.

Who is this "generally" of whom you speak? The Orthodox and Protestants reject the Immaculate Conception, although for almost opposite reasons. So what?

3 posted on 08/18/2017 8:14:54 AM PDT by Campion (Halten Sie sich unbedingt an die Lehre!)
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To: Governor Dinwiddie
I know there way too many people who think the Pope makes statements because of a claimed personal "message from God," woo-woo oracle-style; but this is not a claim made by the Catholic Church nor by any Pope or Council.

Even at the first Council, the statement "it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us" does not make the claim that this is a God-mandated ruling here for all people at all places and times.

Not even the rarer-than-a-full-eclipse "infallible" statements are purportedly justified as, or presented as, a "personal message" from God to the Pope.

4 posted on 08/18/2017 8:17:12 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Department of Redundancy Department.)
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