BIBLIANO AND AMIGO: Discussions on Eschatology (Lesson #8, Coming in His Kingdom)

Prophecy Questions Blog ^ | September 11, 2017 | Charles Meek

[grumpa]

AMIGO: I can hardly wait till Jesus comes in his kingdom. What a glorious day it will be!

BIBLIANO: Houston, we have a problem. Jesus clearly taught in Matthew 16:27-28 that SOME OF HIS DISCIPLES WOULD LIVE TO SEE HIM COMING IN HIS KINGDOM.

AMIGO: Hmmm. Must be some BIG misunderstanding. That’s not what I’ve been taught by the TV rapture preachers. I watch ‘em all the time. Maybe that passage is about the Transfiguration or Pentecost.

BIBLIANO: Matthew 16:27-28 really cannot be the Transfiguration or Pentecost. This passage is about JUDGMENT and there was no judgment at the Transfiguration or Pentecost. The only judgment that fits is AD 70—when Jesus “came” in judgment against the apostate Jewish nation.

AMIGO: I am confused. The Great Judgment, we all know, is at the end of time.

BIBLIANO: Actually, the Bible never speaks about the end of time—only the end of the AGE (Matthew 24:3). The age in view was the Old Covenant Age, and Jesus’ promises of judgment upon Old Covenant Israel. Thus, with Old Covenant Israel demolished and pushed aside, the New Covenant (initiated at the first advent) came into dominance at AD 70.

AMIGO: No, No. I mean the real judgment.

BIBLIANO: We will all be judged when we die (Hebrews 9:27). But THE GREAT JUDGMENT of which Jesus spoke repeatedly points to AD 70. Here It is, my friend, HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT:

Matthew 10:15, 23 (before some of the disciples had finished going through the cities of Israel)

Matthew 16:27-28 (while some of the disciples were still alive)

Matthew 21:33-45 (the Son to take away the kingdom from the chief priests and Pharisees, who “perceived that He was speaking about them”)

Matthew 22:1-14 (the Jews were invited but they refused, so the king would destroy their city—JUST WHAT HAPPENED IN AD 70)

Matthew 23:29-39 (THEIR GENERATION, in judgment against the Jews, clearly the generation of Jesus’ contemporaries)

Matthew 24:29-34 (again, THEIR GENERATION, not some future generation)

Matthew 26:64 (while the Jewish leadership was still in authority, in judgment against THEM)

AMIGO: OK. Back to Matthew 16. Let’s just separate verse 27 from verse 28. Then verse 28 is not about judgment after all. Problem solved!

BIBLIANO: That doesn’t work either, brother. That would be an arbitrary distortion of God’s Word. But also, verse 27 has the Greek work “mello” in it. This word means “about to,” and is how literal translations (such as Young’s Literal Translation) render it. So, the force of both verses is the same—imminent fulfillment.

AMIGO: Don’t confuse me with the facts. I want a KINGDOM!

BIBLIANO: We are already in the kingdom. You are making the same mistake the first-century Jews made. They wanted a physical, political Messianic kingdom. But Jesus said his kingdom was NOT OF THIS WORLD (John 18:36), nor with signs to be observed (Luke 17:20).

AMIGO: Wait. Wait. What about the MILLENNIAL kingdom?

BIBLIANO: Amigo, the Bible taught that Jesus’ kingdom was being instituted in the first century. Just look up such passages as Matthew 3:1-2; 4:17; 10:6-7; Mark 1:14-15; Luke 10:8-9; 11:20; 17:21. In Revelation we see that the kingdom was about to be finalized (“MUST SHORTLY TAKE PLACE,” “NEAR,” “SOON” per Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6-20). Jesus is reigning NOW and FOREVER from heaven (Revelation 11:15; 12:10)—not just some limited period of time.

AMIGO: I’ve got one more objection. The “kingdom of heaven” is different from the “kingdom of God.” GOTCHA!

BIBLIANO: These terms are used interchangeably in the New Testament. For example: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 3:1-2). Then, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:14-15). Matthew used “kingdom of heaven” out of respect for his Jewish audience, which did not mention the name of God out of reverence. The other gospel writers used “kingdom of God.”

AMIGO: Maybe I should pay more attention to the Bible and less to opinions in the echo chamber.

[grumpa]

For more Discussions on Eschatology, see my website (scroll down):

https://prophecyquestions.com/2016/02/01/articles-by-charles-meek

[CharlesOConnell]

My personal eskaton is when I die and the Judge of all judges my soul. May God have mercy on me.

[Just mythoughts]

BIBLIANO is in need of a teacher.

[marktwain]

Thanks for posting this.

The preterist interpretation of Revelation answers a lot of questions. It makes more sense than many other interpretations.

[dartuser]

The preterist interpretation of Revelation answers a lot of questions.

Really?

Who was the Antichrist then?

I must have missed the event in world history where all the green grass got burned up.

And there is that 'every eye will see him' thing.

And if I recall, the Jews have still not proclaimed 'blessed is the coming one' as He said in Matt 23.

Preterism is only system that explicitly depends on the date of Revelation. It is nothing more than retroactive date-setting.

[marktwain]

Preterists claim the anti-Christ to be the Roman Emperor Nero.

Just as many interpretations of Revelations depend on symbolism and the interpretation of John’s visions, so do the preterists explanations.

Just as many questions can be asked of non-preterist interpretations.

Who of the original apostles is still alive?

I do not claim that any interpretation is the correct one.

I found this link to a preterist view of why the Emperor Nero fits the bill of the Anti-Christ.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/Rome/Monarchs/nero.html

[dartuser]

Preterists claim the anti-Christ to be the Roman Emperor Nero

And to recover from that mistake, they place the date of the book of Revelation before 70 AD.

Here is a PhD dissertation which thoroughly debunks the early date ... preterism stands or falls on the date of the book of Revelation ... a truly odd position.

http://pre-trib.org/data/pdf/hitchcock-dissertation.pdf

[marktwain]

Yes, it does stand on the date of the book of Revelation.

The preterists cite many authorities as to why the book of Revelation was pre 70 A.D.

Here are some of their arguments:

http://www.preteristcentral.com/Dating%20the%20Book%20of%20Revelation.html

[dartuser]

Two page article vs. a PhD thesis?

Hitchcock's thesis is extensive and he deals with many of the arguments in the article.

[marktwain]

Thanks, I will examine it further.

[ravenwolf]

AMIGO: Maybe I should pay more attention to the Bible and less to opinions in the echo chamber.

---

That would be good advice for every one, i believe the bible plainly teaches just what grumpa said but i also believe this world will literally come to an end.

Peter 3:10
But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

[dartuser]

BIBLIANO: We are already in the kingdom. You are making the same mistake the first-century Jews made. They wanted a physical, political Messianic kingdom. But Jesus said his kingdom was NOT OF THIS WORLD.

I must say if we are in the kingdom ... it is a huge disappointment.

I don't see world peace. I don't see perfect control of the weather ... I still see sickness and disease and sin. I don't see Satan bound and not influencing the nations. I don't see a restoration of Israel to a place of prominence spiritually ... I don't see the seven infinitives in Dan 9 fulfilled yet. I could go on and on ... You have to willfully ignore the myriad of prophecies in the OT concerning the kingdom.

Here is your problem grumpa ... Acts 1 plainly teaches that after the resurrection Jesus taught his disciples of the kingdom ... for 40 days!

Are you really going to tell me that after being instructed for 40 days, after the resurrection, on the topic of the kingdom ... the apostles got the very nature of the kingdom wrong?

That's crazy ... Jesus didn't respond to their inquiry with "No no my sons ... you have it all wrong ... the kingdom is in your heart ... you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of the kingdom."

Jesus didn't say that ... He said 'its not for you to know when' ... in the mean time I have a mission for you ... wait, be empowered, then go ...

There is a whole host of issues with preterism ... adequately explain away Acts 1 is one of the larger ones.

If you have something ... please share it ...

And the 'how many times did they misunderstand Him' doesn't hold water after the resurrection ... and after 40 days of instruction concerning the kingdom. The disciples questions doesn't even make sense if He taught them something other than Daniels 'kingdom that will not be destroyed.'