Posted on 09/17/2018 8:38:59 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
From DeMontfort
6. I declare with the saints: Mary is the earthly paradise of Jesus Christ the new Adam, where he became man by the power of the Holy Spirit, in order to accomplish in her wonders beyond our understanding. She is the vast and divine world of God where unutterable marvels and beauties are to be found. She is the magnificence of the Almighty where he hid his only Son, as in his own bosom, and with him everything that is most excellent and precious. What great and hidden things the all-powerful God has done for this wonderful creature, as she herself had to confess in spite of her great humility, “The Almighty has done great things for me.” The world does not know these things because it is incapable and unworthy of knowing them.
And where in the above statement does it say that we have to pray to her to influence Jesus?
On the other hand, in the Bible, we have words from Jesus Himself, who taught us how to pray:
“Pray then like this: Our Father in heaven” (Matt. 6:9).
And this from the Apostle Paul:
“For through him [Jesus] we both [Jew and Gentile believers] have access in one Spirit to the Father” (Eph. 2:18).
We see two important truths, then, in prayer to the Father through the Son in the Holy Spirit.
First, Christian praying is Trinitarian praying. There is no mention of any other person in prayer.
Second, Christian praying exhibits the very structure of the gospel. Jesus stands at the center as the mediator, the Father as the addressee, and the Spirit as the enabler.
There is no mention of Mary in prayers at all. In fact, after the gospels, Mary was only mentioned once by name and never again.
RE: Why did Paul ask people to pray for him? Why do you ask people to pray for you?
Some differences — Paul talked to people who are LIVING to pray for him. I ask LIVING people to pray for me, not the departed.
The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for him. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth.
Second -— I want to pray BIBLICALLY.
I know that It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Catholics do not pray TO saints or Mary, but rather that Catholics can ask saints or Mary to pray FOR them.
However, IN PRACTICE many Catholics diverges from official Roman Catholic teaching. I KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE BECAUSE I LIVED AND WORKED IN ONE OF THE LARGEST ROMAN CATHOLIC COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD -— THE PHILIPPINES.
Many Catholics DO in fact pray directly to saints and/or Mary, asking them for help – instead of asking the saints and/or Mary to intercede with God for help.
Whatever the case, whether a saint or Mary is being prayed to, or asked to pray, neither practice has any biblical basis.
if a saint delivers a prayer to God, it is more effective than us praying to God directly. This concept is NOT MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE. Hebrews 4:16 tells us that we, believers here on earth, can “approach the throne of grace with confidence.”
The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings with limitations. How could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of people?
Finally, In the one instance when a “saint” is spoken to, Samuel in 1 Samuel 28:7-19, Samuel is not exactly happy to be disturbed. It is clear that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us. One has a strong biblical basis; the other has no biblical basis whatsoever.
RE: We have only one mediator but many intercessors. Mary and the saints are intercessors as are our fellow believers.
So, do we pray to these intercessors?
I talk to LIVING intercessors who are here on earth. I don’t talk to ( much less pray to ) departed intercessors.
That's a very good point. Then there is the fact that there is zero mention of a priesthood for Christians. A priesthood with an alter, a sacrifice and even alterboys.
It is amazing and wonderful what Jesus did for us in making us kings and priests. It sure seems like a denial of Him to suggest that we need yet another priesthood.
7. The saints have said wonderful things of Mary, the holy City of God, and, as they themselves admit, they were never more eloquent and more pleased than when they spoke of her. And yet they maintain that the height of her merits rising up to the throne of the Godhead cannot be perceived; the breadth of her love which is wider than the earth cannot be measured; the greatness of the power which she wields over one who is God cannot be conceived; and the depths of her profound humility and all her virtues and graces cannot be sounded. What incomprehensible height! What indescribable breadth! What immeasurable greatness! What an impenetrable abyss!
The word 'pray' fundamentally means to ask. "What time is it, pray tell?" - a little archaic but you get the meaning.
Clearly, those believers who have died are not omniscient so the only way they could know of our requests is if God made it known but we all know of stories of people being awakened with a strong urge to pray (intercede) for someone who later turned out to be in need.
If the Lord can do that for living believers, why not for departed believers?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.