Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Anglican Nightmare in Rome: "Ordained" Female Deacons, First Step Towards "Women Priests"
Rorate Caeli ^ | January 18, 2019 | Father Richard G. Cipolla, DPhil (Oxon)

Posted on 01/18/2019 11:14:04 PM PST by ebb tide

Op-Ed - Anglican Nightmare in Rome: "Ordained" Female Deacons, First Step Towards "Women Priests"

Father Richard G. Cipolla, DPhil (Oxon)


“Consecrated women already work so much with the poor and the marginalized: teaching the catechism, accompanying the sick and the moribund, distributing communion, [and] in many countries conducting the common prayers in absence of priests and in those circumstances pronouncing the homily. In the church there is the office of the permanent diaconate, but it is open only to married and non-married men. What impedes the church from including women among permanent deacons, just as it happened in the early church? Why not construct an official commission that might study the question?"

The above quote was one of the questions asked of Pope Francis at the meeting of the International Union of Superior General of Women’s Orders in the Church in May 2016. The Pope’s response included a statement of his personal interest in the question and he promised to set up a Commission to investigate the question. Four members of the Commission were part of a panel discussion on “The Future of Women Deacons: Views from the Papal Commission and the American Pews” at Fordham University’s Center for Religion and Culture”. Panelists included 4 members of the Commission: Phyllis Zagano, a long time advocate for ordaining women to the diaconate, Jesuit Father Bernard Pottier, and Sister Donna Ciangio, O.P., the chancellor of the Archdiocese of Newark and principal and founder of Church Leadership Consultation. The moderator of the discussion was Father Thomas Rosica, CEO of Salt and Light. Fr Rosica is the priest who in a fit of enthusiasm for the pontificate of Pope Francis declared: “Pope Francis breaks Catholic traditions whenever he wants because he is “free from disordered attachments” Our Church has indeed entered a new phase: with the advent of this first Jesuit pope, it is openly ruled by an individual rather than by the authority of Scripture alone or even its own dictates of tradition plus Scripture.”. That quote sets the mise en scene of this panel discussion.


At least in the account of the discussion posted on Crux, Professor Zagano, not to be confused with Archbishop Viganò (these Italian names sound so much alike and who cares about an accent mark), said the Commission had completed its work and that the Pope has the report, and she expressed her confidence that when the moment comes, he’ll make the right call. And given Professor Zagano’s history of supporting women deacons, the right call is obvious. “It’s up to the Church to make noise” she said. She also warned, according to the Crux report, that “to delay a positive answer” on whether women can serve as deacons “is a negative answer.”

Sister Donna Ciangio said that as a member of the Dominicans, the Order of Preachers, women have historically said that “we preach in different ways…That doesn’t satisfy me anymore.” Sister Donna’s dissatisfaction would seem to indicate that her own conclusion is the same as that of Professor Zagano. Fr. Pottier seemed, on the basis of the report, to agree that there is no valid objection to the ordination of women deacons.
Fr. Pottier said that there is “various kinds of evidence of true ordination” of women deacons over a span of twelve centuries.”

We cannot judge the content of the Commission’s work delivered to Pope Francis until that is published in its entirety, which, given the present way of doing things in Rome, may not ever happen. Perhaps Pope Francis will read it and decide that women should be ordained deacons without ever telling the Church what the basis of his decision is. It reminds one of the Consilium set up after the Second Vatican Council that was entrusted to carry out the wishes of the Council on the renewal of the Liturgy. One should never entrust a reform of something that those entrusted with the reform despise.

But we can make a few observations based on what the members of the Commission have said at the Forum at Fordham. The panelists made no mention of the publication of the International Theological Commission in 2002 on precisely the question of the diaconate in the history of the Church vis a vis its sacramentality. This question is complex and the ITC is careful to give the history of the diaconate as best they can given the historical record, which is incomplete and often contradictory. This study was done mainly in relationship to the “renewal” of the Permanent Diaconate after Vatican II. But at the very end of their report the ITC briefly addresses the question of women deacons.

“With regard to the ordination of women to the diaconate, it should be noted that two important indications emerge from what has been said up to this point:
1. The deaconesses mentioned in the tradition of the ancient Church - as evidenced by the rite of institution and the functions they exercised - were not purely and simply equivalent to the deacons;
2. The unity of the sacrament of Holy Orders, in the clear distinction between the ministries of the bishop and the priests on the one hand and the diaconal ministry on the other, is strongly underlined by ecclesial tradition, especially in the teaching of the Magisterium. “

This certainly is not a ringing affirmation of ordaining women to the diaconate. The careful work done by the ITC shows the complexity of the question and in no way supports the idea that women were ordained to the diaconate “for twelve hundred years”.
We also hope that there will be a discussion of how the Permanent Diaconate has been received by the Church since Vatican II. One of the main reasons given for the “renewal” of the Permanent Diaconate was that they would be of great service in Missionary situations like in Africa. What happened—and this is telling in many ways—that the great majority of Permanent Deacons are in the affluent West, and that about 60% of Permanent Deacons in the world are in the United States. One recent development that should be discussed and considered is why a number of dioceses in the United States are putting a hold on Permanent Deacons. There are dioceses in the United States that seem to be not positive about the Permanent Diaconate. The reason for this should be investigated and discussed. That there are negative feelings about the Permanent Diaconate among priests in the United States is an open secret. Why this is so should be openly discussed.
If the Church decides—and at this time the Church seems to be the Pope—to ordain women to the diaconate it certainly should not be because they are women. There must be a reason to do so that is consonant with the Mission of the Church to the world: to proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior within the love of God who gave his only-begotten Son to die on the Cross that we might live, that Father who calls every man and woman to faith in His Son and to live that faith with love for all in this world. And this must be proclaimed within the Tradition of the Church, and consonant(pace Fr. Rosica) with the Vincentian Canon: Quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus creditum est” (That Faith which has been believed everywhere, always, by all).

One last aside. At the Fordham Panel conference, someone in the audience pressed the panel to weigh in on women’s ordination to the priesthood. The panel thought this unhelpful to tie the question of women’s ordination to the priesthood with ordaining women as deacons. Pope Francis has said that the possibility of women’s ordination is a settled matter in the negative. As a former Episcopal priest( and at this writing, through the grace of God about to celebrate the 35th anniversary of my Catholic priesthood) who witnessed the collapse of any semblance of a Traditional understanding of the priesthood in the Episcopal Church on the basis of the “justice” of opening to the priesthood to women and doing so by a group of bishops in defiance of the teaching of the Episcopal Church on the male priesthood and the failure of the rest of the bishops to condemn this act—all of this gives me pause. And I hope I will be forgiven for not quite believing that in the minds of some Catholics, including prelates, women deacons are the first step to women priests. And that would be a deep and gross betrayal of Tradition and the Catholic understanding of the priesthood as alter Christus, where the maleness of Christus is objectively integral to who He is as the Savior of all women and men.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic
KEYWORDS: francischurch; womyndeacons; womynpriests
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-35 next last

1 posted on 01/18/2019 11:14:04 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: marshmallow; Al Hitan; Biggirl; Coleus; DuncanWaring; ebb tide; Fedora; Hieronymus; irishjuggler; ..

Ping


2 posted on 01/18/2019 11:15:18 PM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

It would be the end of the Catholic Church.


3 posted on 01/18/2019 11:55:25 PM PST by BunnySlippers (I Love Bull Markets ......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: BunnySlippers; ebb tide
And I hope I will be forgiven for not quite believing that in the minds of some Catholics, including prelates, women deacons are the first step to women priests. And that would be a deep and gross betrayal of Tradition and the Catholic understanding of the priesthood as alter Christus, where the maleness of Christus is objectively integral to who He is as the Savior of all women and men.

He is correct in believing that some Catholics believe that women should be ordained.

My eldest sister is one of them. She attended a Catholic school and was in high school pre V2. So, she was taught the correct doctrine.

But in our discussions over that years she has made it clear to me her views. She completely embraces the post V2 changes. She has been a Eucharistic Minister. She expressed her loathing of John-Paul the second.

She once came right out and said that she thought women should be ordained.

She is also a far Left Democrat so there is no surprises because she is completely in character.

4 posted on 01/19/2019 12:10:44 AM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac

I was under the impression that it was resolved ... that women could not be ordained. This is from attending Catholic School from pre-school to college. I don’t think I could get used to them.

In other religions, fine. Not Catholics.

You say this is what is being taught now. I was fifties and sixties.


5 posted on 01/19/2019 12:38:16 AM PST by BunnySlippers (I Love Bull Markets ......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac

I won’t attend mass if the priest is a woman. Most Catholics won’t. So good for them.

I do think priests should be allowed to marry. That’s got nothing to do with Catholic doctrine and is based in politics and wealth confiscation.


6 posted on 01/19/2019 1:13:59 AM PST by mindburglar (Don't bother. I don't debate.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: BunnySlippers

I do not believe that it is being taught now.

My point was in regard to my sister who was schooled as a Catholic in the same time period as yourself. She got the true doctrine and not the post Vatican 2 bilge that I got.

Not that I was ever taught that women could be ordained but after V2 ecumenical-ism came in to fashion and Catholics were indoctrinated that we could be more like protestants.

So, we start having Guitar masses, we start singing protestant hymns, we start serving communion to remarried divorced Catholics, we stop talking about mortal sins and on and on.

So when Anglicans start ordaining women Catholics start thinking it might be okay.


7 posted on 01/19/2019 2:00:04 AM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: mindburglar
I won’t attend mass if the priest is a woman. Most Catholics won’t. So good for them.

I'm old enough to remember people walking out of the first mass in our town that wasn't in Latin. That was supposed to be the end of the church. I also remember girls with pieces of tissue pinned to their heads with bobbie pins. When they stopped enforcing that it was also supposed to be the end, at least until they got rid of fish on Friday. That was really supposed to be the end. What it really was doing was distracting us from the fact that the church was turning into a bunch of Marxist child molesters using our contributions to fund their lifestyle. This sounds like another one of those distractions.

8 posted on 01/19/2019 2:04:55 AM PST by Oshkalaboomboom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: mindburglar
That’s got nothing to do with Catholic doctrine and is based in politics and wealth confiscation.

I believe that the at least the wealth confiscation part is myth and propaganda.

In the middle ages it became traditional for a second son or any son other than the first born to enter the priesthood.

Second sons and other siblings could not inherit property. Any progeny of royalty could expect little more than a stipend and to live on the estate unless that eldest son died.

In event that the eldest son died it was customary that the second son if in the priesthood would be permitted to leave the priesthood and return to his family estate to take up the title vacated.

It was also illegal for a Lord or Baron to sell land. Land could only be passed to an heir or be forfeited to the crown.

9 posted on 01/19/2019 2:14:18 AM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Oshkalaboomboom
What it really was doing was distracting us from the fact that the church was turning into a bunch of Marxist child molesters using our contributions to fund their lifestyle. This sounds like another one of those distractions.

Before V2 Catholicism was God centered.

After V2 Catholicism became man centered.

Doing away with the rituals and customs that you mentioned pushed humanism on Catholics. Changing the mass from ad orientum to the new ordinary mass was part of this plan.

10 posted on 01/19/2019 2:19:57 AM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac

Thanks. I was under the impression that if the unmarried second son died, his weslth was transferred to the church.


11 posted on 01/19/2019 2:52:16 AM PST by mindburglar (Don't bother. I don't debate.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Oshkalaboomboom

Fair point. I can only speak for me personally. I’m not attending a mass with a female priest. Even if she identifies as a male... Gotta get rid of this heretic, commie Pope.


12 posted on 01/19/2019 2:55:56 AM PST by mindburglar (Don't bother. I don't debate.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Oshkalaboomboom

And in all this time witnessing these things, you never, ever noticed that attendance at Mass was dropping like a stone? You know, it doesn’t take a Sherlock Holmes to notice things like that...


13 posted on 01/19/2019 4:53:26 AM PST by miss marmelstein
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac

It was the last son of the family who traditionally went into the priesthood in the middle ages. Richard III was slated for the priesthood as the youngest in his family. He was more suited to the military and was allowed to be a soldier. But he was educated to be a priest.


14 posted on 01/19/2019 4:55:42 AM PST by miss marmelstein
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: miss marmelstein

Actually I didn’t see much of a dropout until the sex scandals and the lawsuits. That was a tipping point. John Paul 2 gave people hope but everyone else has just sped up the decline.


15 posted on 01/19/2019 5:30:22 AM PST by Oshkalaboomboom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Oshkalaboomboom

I have no idea where you went to church. But I saw the drop-off beginning by at least 1970. Maybe you need new glasses? Or are you very young?


16 posted on 01/19/2019 5:34:50 AM PST by miss marmelstein
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: mindburglar; Pontiac; BunnySlippers; ebb tide
A priest can not be a woman because a woman lacks proper form for the Sacrament of Orders. A priest must be a baptized male otherwise the Sacrament doesn't "take". Which also means no valid consecrations or absolutions by the female "priest".
17 posted on 01/19/2019 5:34:55 AM PST by piusv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Oshkalaboomboom

its all about control ...thats all they want. Follow Christ and drop all the dogma....very simple


18 posted on 01/19/2019 5:35:17 AM PST by Dont tread and Live (waso)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: miss marmelstein

I’m not very young, I don’t need glasses and I’m not a sarcastic twat, unlike yourself.


19 posted on 01/19/2019 5:42:38 AM PST by Oshkalaboomboom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: piusv
Oops, I meant proper matter...sorry. Still waking up.
20 posted on 01/19/2019 5:50:12 AM PST by piusv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-35 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson