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To: dwilkins

What I actually asked was, in essence, “why no Israel in an exposition on fulfilled prophecy?” I didn’t see that in your answer.

But, since you asked, here’s my answer. Forgive me if I overdo it. You may find my answer utterly abhorrent. I don’t know.

Isaiah 66:15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many. 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine’s flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord. 18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

Verses 15, 16 and 18 actually seem to tell God’s people to take heart, because justice will be done; the enemies of God will ‘get theirs’. Meanwhile, it is also a reminder (among others) of God telling us that ‘vengeance is His, He will repay’. This helps us at times when we’d rather take the law into our own hands.
Verse 15 in particular reminds me of the Two Witnesses, one of which I surmise to be Elijah, in Revelation 11:3-6 (please read it and see why I think it is likely Elijah). We also cannot escape that Elijah was taken up ‘with fire, in a chariot, like a whirlwind’. Scriptures are used to prove and elucidate scriptures . See 2 Kings 2:8-11.

We saw a sample of the Lord’s anger in the first few verses of Isaiah 63, where He’s trampling out the grapes of His wrath. Elsewhere, read: Joel 3:1-5, 9-17; Ezekiel 7:2-9; Ezekiel 38:14-23; Ezekiel 39:2-8; Nahum 1:6; Revelation 14:14-20; Revelation 19:11-21; and 2 Thessalonians 2:8.
These are but a few of the verses that speak of God, in the last days, finishing up the business that began with original sin, i.e., Adam’s and Eve’s rebellion against Him after listening to the devil. This is why we needn’t worry when things seem to be going against us and the people of God. We know that God is being patient – just like He was, and is, with us!

Back to Isaiah 66:15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.

These are metaphors for “It’ll be too late when He comes”, just like it was too late when the Flood arrived on the earth. The time to reconcile with him is now.
Matthew 24: 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
2 Peter 3: 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

And there are indications of the ministry of Elijah inherent in this passage. See 1 Kings 19:8-19; 2 Kings 2:1-18; 2 Kings 6:8-18; Malachi 4:1-6, and Mark 9:1-8.
1. The Lord will indeed judge, and violently; but presently, He speaks pleasantly, via the still, small voice.
2. We should never feel as if we are the only obedient ones; God has a considerable remnant, always; honor them.
3. The Rapture is highly foreshadowed in the snatching away of Elijah via whirlwind and chariot of fire.
4. The Rapture and return to earth is foreshadowed in the Mount of Transfiguration, in Mark 9.
5. The mantle that fell on Elisha is like the double portion to us in Matthew 28:18-20, empowered by Acts 1:8 .

66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine’s flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord. 18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

This is self-righteous Israel, then Judah, then you and me for that matter, thinking we are getting away with hypocrisy, like Adam and Eve after they had the forbidden fruit, acting as if nothing had happened, like Cain after he had killed Abel, acting like he had done nothing. This is us, presuming upon the patience of God.
It’s no coincidence that God invokes here the imagery of a garden and the “one tree”. The garden was a sacred place; the First Couple profaned it. The Temple was a sacred place; Israel and Judah and the pious Priests and Pharisees and scribes profaned it. Our body is the temple of the Holy Ghost, and we profane it more often than we’d like to admit.
Lord, we are so sorry. Please forgive us and sanctify us and help us to improve continually.
God says here that He knows their works. He implies here that He knows our works, too. He says it again in Revelation, several times, in the Letters to the Churches. His omniscience obviously spans all eras, epochs and generations. We do well if we perpetually remind ourselves of His pain over our sin.

66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord. 21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord.
This is quite mysterious; but the most coherent interpretation I have is that it is a prophecy of the Church. Tarshish, Pul, Lud, Tubal and Javan are all some of the places where the Gospel first took root. Almost concurrently with the big scattering that followed the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 70 came the spread of the Gospel, by the Apostles, who were Jews, going at first to Jews who had been dispersed just after Isaiah’s time, and then to “the nations” (Gentiles).
“And ‘they’ shall bring all your bretheren for an offering” – this speaks, if you understand the nature of “offerings” (i.e., that an offering was a representative amount, a “memorial” of what God had provided), of a remnant – once again, that word!
The “offering in a clean vessel” is a born-again Israelite or Jew who has been reached by the Gospel by the process described in v 19. As we know, born again people are all part of a “royal priesthood, a holy nation” (1 Peter 2:9). I believe these 3 verses also have layered interpretations relevant to present-age, Tribulational, and Millennial circumstances!

66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.

And here, as befits the end of the greatest compilation of OT prophecies of them all (the book of Isaiah), we see Eternity invoked. It is hard to imagine, but think of it! This is the last dispensation, and it will last (and last, and last). It will be “new every morning”, like it says in Lamentations 3:23; “it will be joy unspeakable and full of glory”, like it says in 1 Peter 1:8; it will be “the glory that will be revealed in us”, like it says in Romans 8:18; it will be what “eyes have not seen, ears have not heard, nor has it entered into the mind of man”, like it says in Isaiah 64:4 and 1 Corinthians 2:9, it will be the epitome of “exceeding abundantly above all we can ask or think”, like it says in Ephesians 3:20.
All of that, and more, makes it sound like it will be endless fascination, transcending the greatest sights, sounds, tastes, and feelings we have ever known here on earth. Here He is offering it, to the Jew first!

God, through Isaiah, uses the concept of eternity to extend the duration of His love for Israel (the descendants of Jacob who stopped rebelling and embraced Christ, either in the Church Age or in the Tribulation), extending it even beyond the famous, more temporal, promises that “as long as the sun, moon and stars continue”, God would let Israel continue as a nation (Jeremiah 31:35-37). Here now, in v 22, He extends that promise even beyond the sun, moon and stars, or anything else we know of in this life.
Their “seed” and “name” remain. Foremost among the “seed” is the Son of God, Jesus Christ Himself!


5 posted on 03/13/2019 8:03:56 AM PDT by Migraine
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To: Migraine

Sorry for not directly answering your question. I had limited time and thumb typing wouldn’t have made it easy to do so.

To a preterist, it’s a bit odd to hear the assertion that Israel wasn’t addressed in a long explanation, which the OP clearly was. The various fulfillments that were cited all dovetail into promises made to Israel. I presume, then, that you aren’t talking about Israel in the historical narrative of scripture, but instead the modern state of Israel. If that’s your question, the answer is that preterists (generally speaking) don’t think it has a role in eschatology. Curiously, Orthodox Jews and premillennialists used to think the same thing. The majority of Jews in 1900 were not Zionists, and mid-century Classical Dispensationalists were clear that they didn’t the modern state could be a fulfillment of anything because Israel was supposed to be regathered after repentance. In addition, the parameters of Dispensationalism precluded any fulfillment of prophecy during the church age. As far as I can tell, it’s only been since about the ‘67 war that Christians became obsessed with the potential eschatological significance of the state that currently exists.


9 posted on 03/13/2019 9:33:09 AM PDT by dwilkins
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