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To: dangus
"Oh, brother."

Agree wholeheartedly.

I can see many possible whores of Babylon. But if I had to guess I'd say it's Israel/the Hebrew people.

A) Many prophetic books in the Bible, albeit Old Testament, use the analogy of a cheating whore wife for how God feels about the Jews when they betray Him and worship something else.

B) I think us American Christians have an American or western bias in interpreting prophecies. Instead of assuming it's always about Europe or some western power, if we're to assume a prophecy is localized to any region at all we ought to assume a power in the Middle East. Even Patmos, the island the book of Revelation was written, is on the edge of modern day Turkey and about as close to Israel as it is to Rome. The same with us often using Old Testament prophetic books when interpreting Revelation (i.e. I like to look at the timeline in Daniel 12 when reading the one in Revelation 11.).

Thus, if I had to pick an interpretation of Revelation right now I'd lean towards the whore being Israel and the multi-headed beast being Islam, with his seven heads being the seven nations that came against Israel when Israel declared itself a nation (the Arab League). The "was and is not and is yet to come" description of the beast may be a description of how huge and powerful the Ottoman Empire was centuries after Revelation was written, then "is not" may be about it being virtually nothing after World War One (basically modern day Turkey), but sprang up again in 1948 as the Arab League fighting Israel to keep Israel from becoming an independent nation.

The Lamb of Christ being victorious in this context may be the Christian nations of the west (when we used to call ourselves Christian nations) winning World Wars One and Two and securing a place for Israel.

Verse 15 in Ch. 17 seems to change the scene with "Then the angel said to me, 'The waters which you saw,...' ". It may be that it changes the time frame and discusses centuries ago when many nations in that area became Muslim (surrendered to the beast) and made the middle east desolate (believe it or not the area where Israel is now used to have lots of life, then for a while was a desert, but now Israel is making it thrive again). And it may be that verse 18's statement that the woman is the "great city" is Jerusalem -- the city Muslims and Christians fought over a lot. Or it could be not a city but a nation -- the nation of Israel -- it is the most powerful nation in the area.

And Chapter 18's description of a fallen Babylon and all the merchants lamenting her destruction may be about the current nation of Israel being destroyed for being too secular and/or too against Christianity. The nations around Israel do an awful lot of business with it -- the loss of Israel would be horrible to the economies of the Middle East, though they hate Israel a lot.

Not saying I'm right on all these things. Just pointing out that we probably ought to have a middle eastern perspective of eschatology before we assume every prophecy is about Hitler or the 9/11 attacks.

18 posted on 10/22/2019 7:10:28 PM PDT by Tell It Right (1st Thessalonians 5:21 -- Put everything to the test, hold fast to that which is true.)
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To: Tell It Right

Agree that the prophecies in revelation are Jerusalem and Israel centric...

Prior to the rebirth of the nation of Israel in 1948 the prophecies made no sense and out of this arose replacement theology. in this Europe, the Catholic Church, and even the United States were replaced and interpreted in lieu of the state of Israel not existing.

unfortunately, since the rebirth of the the nationstate of Israel this replacement theology has lingered and corrupted many hermeneutical interpretations.

In context, the book of Revelation needs to be Jerusalem and Israel centered.


19 posted on 10/22/2019 7:21:02 PM PDT by SheepWhisperer (it's all a game, it's a thought experiment, we're in the Matrix)
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To: Tell It Right

Thanks, but I still think you’re trying to stick a Western, current-day interpretation on the passage.

I certainly don’t see any reason to presume that the Whore of Babylon is Israel, since she controls the beast. She’s more likely some sort of supra-national entity. Like the U.N., or the European Union, or the Soviet Union, or the Arab League, but far more likely something that has not yet emerged. And probably something headquartered in the actual city of Rome (as opposed to “Rome,” as Protestants and Americans incorrectly identify the Vatican; it’s sorta like calling the Pentagon, “Washington,” even though its in Virginia). (The EU was once identifiable with the Treaty of Rome, but now has far too many nations and no longer can be identified with Rome.)


21 posted on 10/23/2019 6:50:33 AM PDT by dangus
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