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Posted on 08/09/2020 7:46:24 AM PDT by MurphsLaw
From the Lutheran LCMS.org website
All three accounts of the institution of the Lord's Supper in the Gospels (Matthew 26:26-29; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:14-23) explicitly state that Jesus took BREAD, blessed it, broke it, and gave it to his disciples saying, "Take, eat; this [i.e., this BREAD, which I have just blessed and broken and am now giving to you] is my body." Jesus uses similar language in referring to "the cup" (of wine) as "his blood."... Perhaps the most explicit expression of this truth, however, is found in 1 Cor. 10:16-17, where Paul writes: "The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread." Paul clearly says here that we all "partake" of "BREAD" when we receive the Lord's Supper--even as we also partake of and "participate in" the true body of Christ. And he says that we all "partake" of the wine (the cup), even as we also partake of the true blood of Christ. Similarly, in 1 Cor. 11:26, Paul says: "For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes." Paul expressly states here ........................that those who eat this bread and drink this cup are also partaking of the true body and blood of Christ. So "real" is this participation in Christ's body and blood, in fact, that (according to Paul) those who partake of the bread and wine "in an unworthy manner" are actually guilty of "profaning the body and blood of the Lord" (1 Cor. 11:27). (Partaking of the Lord's Supper "in a worthy manner," of course, is not something that we "do" or "accomplish" on the basis of our "personal holiness" or "good works." It means receiving God's free and gracious gifts of life and forgiveness offered in the Lord's Supper in true repentance produced by the work of the Spirit through God's Law and in true faith in Christ and his promises produced by God's Spirit through the Gospel).
Christ and the Apostles made it very clear that we're to live by faith, not by having our personal understanding satisfied. In fact, I'd say that a good part of the weight of our cross in this modern world is the burden of believing things we cannot prove. The whole world pretends they believe that only what we can see, touch, measure, and prove scientifically, is real. Believing what Christ said is a real burden in that sort of world, especially when so many people either mock what Christ said or go to great lengths to explain why what Christ said isn't what you think He said.
It's always amazed me how so many non-Catholics answer questions by going to great lengths to show you that what Scripture says isn't what Scripture really means (in fact, that's the single biggest factor in my being Catholic now after spending most of my life non-Catholic), almost always by taking something from a different context and tossing it out. It's twice as amazing when your realize that those who are convinced that all they need is their own copy of the KJV of the Bible and their own understanding guided by whatever spirit shouts loudest are in reality creating a personal subset of the Scripture. First they select what they accept as it is written, then mix in the balance of the Scripture only after they interpret it to suit them self.
What else can you expect, really, when the originator of the Scripture Alone doctrine first threw out portions of the Bible as it existed at the time of Christ, then spelled out a hierarchy of which books in the NT were worthy and which weren't, and only then finally said "This portion of the Scripture Alone". Everyone who adheres to the same doctrine naturally feels free to do the same thing, find the portions they agree with or interpret to suit their own preconceptions and understanding and then proclaim, "This portion of Scripture Alone". Gnostics who hide the structure of their faith behind an elaborate scaffolding built from their own understanding and out of context Scripture is the result.
I know several people who cannot stand to simply let you read them the verses prior to and just after something they quote because it messes up their personal version of Scripture. In what they accept, verses other than those they quote just don't exist. They may as well redact that portion of their Bible. They believe the verses they've highlighted in various colors and believe those verses as they relate to other highlighted verses, not the entire Bible and not those portions that make them uncomfortable or might make them live by faith alone rather than by their understanding alone.
Reading what Christ personally said regarding the bread and wine is a perfect example. Non-Catholics for the most part read it, then start in on how Christ didn’t mean what He clearly said. More often than not, though, they become reenactors and make a smart remark then turn around and walk away from Christ just like people at the time did.
JMHO
40 There shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron; it shall break in pieces and subdue all these others, just as iron breaks in pieces and crushes everything else. 41 The feet and toes you saw, partly of clay and partly of iron, mean that it shall be a divided kingdom, but yet have some of the hardness of iron. As you saw the iron mixed with clay tile, 42 and the toes partly iron and partly clay, the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43 The iron mixed with clay means that they shall seal their alliances by intermarriage, but they shall not stay united, any more than iron mixes with clay. 44 In the lifetime of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed or delivered up to another people; rather, it shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and put an end to them, and it shall stand forever. 45 That is the meaning of the stone you saw hewn from the mountain without a hand being put to it, which broke in pieces the iron, bronze, clay, silver, and gold. The great God has revealed to the king what shall be in the future; this is exactly what you dreamed, and its meaning is sure.” The new Kingdom comes, Christianity, in the time of the fourth kingdom - the Roman Empire, which shattered in 453 AD.
There is no 2000 year gap
MHG - why was there so much messianic fervour in the 1st century? Because Jews in the first century KNEW that Daniel's prophecy pointed to their time
The personal relationship with Christ - one finds it in His teachings, in His body and blood (the Eucharist) and in the freely given Grace He gives.
So are you saying that the first century Christians who were overwhelmingly of a Jewish background, were not children of, in your opinion, God?
It is considered a cult, a ‘white’ queen cult.
That’s what lots of other “Christians” keep trying to tell me. I don’t Feel like I’m in a cult. No one controls me. I came to my own conclusions independent of the SDA church. No one made me or forced me to say or do anything. The SDA church is the fastest growing Protestant denomination in the world and there’s probably a very good reason for that in these end times. People recognize we are right in doctrine and prophecy. You want to say “remnant church”? I would agree with that. And the number one reason people like you keep telling me I’m part of a cult? Because that’s EXACTLY WHAT SATAN WOULD WANT EVERYONE TO BELIEVE to keep them away from the truth. Satan isn’t coming after non believers. He’s coming after Christians. He knows he has the the other ones in the bag and they are done for. The trick is to get Christians to lose their salvation and how does he do that? By throwing out there truth with error and get people to believe it. You believe it. You are Satan’s dupe. He has convinced you that commandment keeping isn’t necessary, and that you will never need to even consider the Antichrist or MOTB, because you won’t be on the earth when he shows up. You will never be exposed. Man, does he ever have your number. You and most of the rest of the Christian world have been fooled. You do not give Satan any credit for the brilliant tactician that he is. You just go along with it and get others to believe it, ensuring their eternal damnation. Some Christian you are, right? More than likely when you find out you have been wrong all along, it will be too late and there will be nothing you can do.
MHGinTN, what you should be doing is look at the clues in the bible and figure out who the Antichrist is and what the MOTB is. It’s all there in graphic prophetical detail. I can help you with that and I have. I’ve given you and everyone plenty of information, more than enough. But then there’s faith and belief. That’s between you and the Holy Spirit. If He can’t convince you, there is no hope. Some people don’t want to know the truth. They just want what pleases their ears. The pre trib rapture theory is very pleasing. No tribulation, everyone is up in heaven looking down on the Antichrist and the ensuing turmoil. All wrapped up in a nice, neat package. The problem is that Jesus never says he will take us out of the tribulation. He says He will be with us to the end. The issue is WHO WILL OVERCOME. No one said it would be easy. It never has been.
Revelation 12:
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
No free pass for anyone. Do you love Christ enough to die for Him and everything he stands for? Hundreds of millions have died for their faith and you get a free pass? Don’t make me laugh.
Here it is again MHGinTN:
Revelation 14:
12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 22:
12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Are you loyal unto death? If not, you have no business calling yourself a Christian. Those who endure will receive a great reward. That is what the bible tells us.
Just like Adam and Eve had a “test” with the tree of life, we who are alive at the end will also have a test. That test is the Mark of the Beast and it is tied directly to the 7th day Sabbath. THE FINAL EXAM. Have you studied for it? Maybe someone sells a book “MOTB for dummies”? Passing the exam may include losing your life. Are you ready for it? I am. I’m not afraid of losing my life for Christ. I will not bow down to the IMAGE. It sounds like you will. You will cave. But, then again, maybe you will wise up. Who knows.
I also believe the end is near. The difference between me and you is that I’ve been studying for the FINAL EXAM. You haven’t. You are in big trouble. There are no multiple choice questions on this exam for you to luck out on.
“tree of life” should read “tree of the knowledge of good and evil” My bad. Honest mistake.
oh, firstly, there is no “we” - each of you has radically different theologies
secondly, among the many, many, many non-catholic western groups on this forum, the tactic of shouting “you are wrong, too much text” used against Catholics is pretty common place as well
And yet you'll have folks who say Yep, it is definitely the religion of Beelzebub; -- and that's a member of one of the many western groups
Not interested. I gave you many chances to stop strawmanning and you never did.
You’re not worth my time.
See you in the clouds, Sister, sooner than the dead souls could even imagine.
I’ve not seen any evidence the Lutherns are Prots!
They seem more like popeless Catholics to me.
Golly; then the Acts 15 letter should show some evidence of it.
Heck; the entire bible ought to show some evidence of being CATHOLIC from the getgo; too: but it doesn't.
The same question is being asked still today.
And Rome says that IT has the only source available.
Sorry - not buying it.
No; He didn't.
So then you do admit that the Catholic view is correct. Good for you
ok catholic
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