What Caused The Jewish Exile? ...Noahide error

https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2020/10/16/what-happened-to-cause-the-exile-noahide-error/ ^ | 10-16-20 | Bill Randles

[Cronos]

JiL Israel is a nation today

When I came to Poland in 2010 I learnt that they differentiate between nation and country. And that's true for Israel and Jews -- Israel is a nation AND a country in which multiple nations live (such as Armenians, Arabs, Druze etc.)

Judah has never ceased to be a nation in the non-political sense - but Israel as a nation was torn after Solomon and ceased after the Assyrian conquest - unless you consider the Samaritan claims (which are validated by genetic tests that they are descended from Israelites)

Israel as a political entity ended in 700 BC, Judaea as a political entity ended in 70 AD, but had a 4 year break in 132 BC under the "Jewish Messiah" Bar Kochkba

Modern Israel is a country for the "race" of Jews to have a homeland - and I support that idea as I'm sure we all do. However as a "nation" this is partially a country for the nation of Judah alone. northern Israelites aren't there yet.

[JerseyDvl]

I believe it was a massive Cereal famine. You couldn’t get a bowl anywhere.

[Cronos]

Pastor bill The condition of national restoration is the confession of a national offense… Even the Prophet of the Tanakh, Hosea predicted the same,

I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me earl

Hosea wrote before 722 BC, before the Assyrian destruction of northern Israel - his message was to the northern Israelites, he was based in northern Israel and his message is to them like at the start of 5:1 [1] Hear ye this, O priests, and hearken, O ye house of Israel, and give ear, O house of the king: for there is a judgment against you, because you have been a snare to them whom you should have watched over, and a net spread upon Thabor.

... and [3] I know Ephraim, and Israel is not hid from me: for now Ephraim hath committed fornication, Israel is defiled.

and [5] And the pride of Israel shall answer in his face: and Israel and Ephraim shall fall in their iniquity, Juda also shall fall with them.

Wouldn't it make more sense that this was directed to the northern tribes coming back?

[Cronos]

"favorite children" - not really, they are the chosen people - chosen to bring light (Jesus) to the world - "Salvation comes from the Jews"

And many Jews would tell you they have often wondered why someone else wasn't chosen.

The descendants of Israel were the chosen people - so that included the northern tribes, not just the Judaeans.

And the northern tribes were dissipated in what is now Iraq, Syria, Iran, Armenia -- and Jews traveled and intermingled in Yemen, Western India, Iran, Egypt, East Africa, Europe etc. - a lot of people are descended from Abraham - even people we'd classify today as Indians, Iranians, Iraqis, Turks, Greeks, Egyptians, Arabs, French, English, Russians, Americans etc. etc.

[Cronos]

Rome was defeated by the Ottoman Turks, the Crusaders then the Ottomans again

Correct. People don't seem to realize that Rome continued on in the East until 1453. They called themselves Romans, kept Roman law, had an Emperor who was considered until 800 to be the Emperor of the entire empire from France to the Euphrates by even the Goths, Lombards, Franks etc.

[Cronos]

There has not always been a “Nation” of Israel, two thousand years came and went without one, the Nation of Israel was reborn in 1948.

They were called "the nation of Israel" by Medieval Europeans, by the Ummayyads and later under the millet system, by the Ottomans

The COUNTRY of Israel was reborn in 1948, but the nation has not ceased

[Cronos]

To SkyDancer’s post #22

Your first bullet points are accurate.

The “Palestinians” are a mix - not only just “Arabs brought by the Ottoman empire” but also Arabs and Arabized Egyptians, Syrians etc. who moved after the Aliyah in the late 1800s made the desert bloom; and also descendants of Arabs who came during the Umayyad and Fatimid caliphates and also descendants of Franks from the Crusader kingdoms, and also descendants of JEWS and Samaritans who intermarried or converted to Islam and/or Christianity (there was a big Christian Palestianian community and genetically they are Israelites)

“They are definitely not the tribes from Crete who settled down in the 5 cities of Gaza strip after the Exodus of Israel from Egypt. These tribes were called Philistines and they weren’t Arabs at all and today’s “Palestinians” are definitely not their descendants.”
—> that’s partially false. The Philistines (Indo-european people) were assimilated by their neighbours by the end of the Assyrian empire. JEWs of today would have some Philistine blood as would “arabs”, syrians, Egyptians and heck even many Europeans and Africans (2700 years of intermarriage does that)
Today’s Palestinians are highly likely to have some Philistine blood - but then so are the Israelis who they oppose.

“The real meaning of the word ‘Israeli’ is someone who belongs to the nation of Israel and not only “a citizen of a state called Israel”.”
—> that is incorrect. As per Israel’s rules - In terms of citizenship, everyone who has an Israeli identity card is Israeli, and under the rules of democracy all are meant to have equal rights

This is not unusual - you have Poland and Poles - I have zero Polish blood or history, but I am a Pole by citizenship not by nation. Ditto for the Irish, Estonians etc.

“Gentiles invented the word ‘Jews’. When the Persians, the Greeks and the Romans occupied the land of Israel they called all the Israelis in the name ‘Jews’ because at those days the tribe of Judah was the biggest and the dominant tribe which survived the exile of Assyria in which 10 tribes of Israel were exiled. “
—> that’s incorrect. The tribe of Judah was the one left (along with the tribes of BEnjamin and Simeon) - and they called themselves the kingdom of Judah right from the split after Solomon.

“in the future the 10 tribes will return to this nation”
—> sigh... no - the tribal identities are more or less gone — EXCEPT AMONG THE SAMARITANS. The descendants of today’s 10 northern tribes are among today’s Iraqis, Iranis, Syrians, Turks, Greeks, and by diffusion over 2700 years will have people who call themselves Indians, Kenyans, Ethiopians, Yemeni, Saudi, heck even French

As to the point about Arab citizens - I know Israeli Arabs and Druze who call themselves Israelis and not Arabs. Yes, they’re in the minority, but they do exist

[Cronos]

To SkyDancer’s post #22

your last bullet points - about the Arabs - remember that the “arabs” who conquered from Spain to the borders of India were small in number and initially kept the Ebionite religion as one for just themselves and didn’t accept converts. It was only in the area around Merv that they took converts from the IraniC peoples. This proved to be the undoing of the Umayyads as the Abbasid arose from here and to a large extent created the religion of Islam and created the fictional character called Mohammad in the 700s.

the Quran wasn’t written down until the late 700s and the first Muslim empire - the Umayyads don’t have coins with “Islam”, “Muhammad”, “Quran”, “Muslim” on them - some in fact have the cross on them.

The people we call “Arabs” today are Arabized peoples - true Arabs are only in the Nejd and Hejaz - they did rule over Jerusalem for more than 22 years after 633 BC - Muawiyah was crowned Caliph in Jerusalem in 661 and the Umayyads were based in Damascus

[Cronos]

impact player Final solution time was 67-70AD - with the destruction of the temple and all sacrificial worship. We (gentiles) were grafted into the faithful remnant of Jews who had accepted Messiah. It really is that simple.

Very well and correctly written, impactplayer

[Cronos]

Every time I have asked on this forum for proof that the “new testament” is truly divinely inspired my opponent has completely ignored my request and merely quoted NT verses.

Dude - you ask for WHY a series is divinely inspired and then ignore quotes from the texts in question?

Why is the book of Numbers divinely inspired according to you?

The gospels are divinely inspired as they show clearly a man prophesying the future destruction of the temple.

Now why do you, dechiante, say that the book of Numbers is divinely inspired?

[Cronos]

There were 12 tribes, but

1. Simeon was surrounded by Juda and was soon absorbed by Juda
2. Levi was priestly and distributed across the tribes
3. Joseph was split into Manasseh and Ephraim

the southern Kingdom was hence Judah + Benjamin + Simeon + much of Levi. The northern tribes would be from the 8 other brothers.

[impactplayer]

The Path to Restoration

We were created to live forever – forever at one with God – to walk with Him in the garden in the cool of the evening. But we blew it, and there was no way we could ever get back, because we were completely incompatible with the Holiness of God. We did not know this of course, believing that our efforts could earn a place with God – but it could not. It took over two thousand years for some to see this, but in the end, most did not. And even now, we still try. Only God could restore us, and though it happens all at once, there are three miracles embedded within our salvation: redemption, justification and adoption.

The story of redemption goes back to the land of Israel. God owned the land and gave it the tribes of Israel, who divided it among the families. A father may get in a hard way and sell his land, but it could be redeemed – purchased back – by a member of the family. No one else could do this – only a member of the family. In the same way, we are God’s, and we can be redeemed – purchased back – by a member of His family. It was for this reason that Jesus came – to pay the price of our redemption.

Justification is a legal term used in a court of law. To be justified is to be found without guilt and set free. Through justification, we are not only found to be without guilt – we are truly without guilt. Our sins are as far away from us as the East is from the West.

So now that we have been redeemed and justified, what more could we possibly want or need? Adoption goes way beyond anything we could ever imagine! We are now adopted into God’s family! This is even better than our position following our original creation – we never had the status of God’s sons. Yet this is exactly what has happened.

We could never accomplish any of this – it all had to be done by God. So, where does this leave us? Are we really living a redeemed, justified life as a true son of God? The world tries to convince us this is not true, that we have to continually strive to be worthy, to be Holy. When we fail (as we surely will), then, of course, we are deemed unworthy. What a waste of time. Accept your eternal value before God and begin living a fully restored life. Jesus came that we might have life, and have it in abundance. Only He could make this happen. Alleluia!

[delchiante]

Quote-Dude - you ask for WHY a series is divinely inspired and then ignore quotes from the texts in question?’

Um, What you wrote wasn’t from me.
I didn’t ask that.
I quoted that from another poster.

And then proceeded to offer an example of why the New Testament is divinely inspired.
And I gave only one small thing. There are many other examples of divine inspired evidence in the New Testament.
There are even Creation examples of the divinely inspired proof of the New Testament.

Given that explanation, do you really now want me to discuss the divinely inspired Numbers?

[Cronos]

Every time I have asked on this forum for proof that the "new testament" is truly divinely inspired -- and on what basis do you claim that the book of Numbers is divinely inspired

[OneVike]

I have been stating that Orthodox Jews are the Pharisees

Interesting, I have followed your commentaries for some time. I never comment, more because I usually stay away from getting into discussions in other men's ministries. Which I how I look at the flock of FreeRepublic. Many Freezers need the truth, and your ministry gives it.

That being said, I looked back at the discussion you had on this commentary and your point that you consider the Orthodox Jews as the carry overs of the Pharisaic Jews.

I agree with you. It was their teaching that led many of the Jews into erroneous teachings since the second temple period. I touched upon it in a commentary I shared on FR where I pointed out how John the Baptist was essentially the last Aaronic High Priest.

Which brings me to the reason for my comment.

I was involved in a round table discussion with some Pastor friends of mine from around the country the other day. In it we were discussing the reason the faith of Moses is referred to Judaism, since nowhere in the Scriptures is that term ever used. The word Jews is, as in reference to the members of the geographical Southern Kingdom of Judah.

We all know that God handed down His regulations as to how Moses was to set up the Religious order, and the Priesthood. He used Aaron and the first High Priest, and all High Priests afterwards were to only come from His line. So every High Priest must come from Aaron's genealogical line.

That being said, jump forward to the return from being in captivity. Some years later the Religious order was changed, not by GOD, but by men. This new religious order became know as Judaism.

Under Judaism, the rules changed, the lineage of Aaron ceased to exist as to who the High Priests were. By the time Christ showed up, the Priesthood, but a shadow of what God put in place. It was a prize gained through bribery or friendship with the powers that be. I believe Jaddua was the last Aaronic High Priest around 177BC or so.

We that Christ replaced the Old covenant by fulfilling all that needed to be done, and thus His work is finished, so He sat down on the right hand of the Father.

Yet, 2000 years later, we still consider God's Old Testament religion as being Jewish, when it is not, and never was. Judaism is not what God put in place. God never changed it. I know Jesus told the woman at thew well salvations comes from the Jews, but that's because He was Jewish.

My question to you, shouldn't the faith of Moses still be referred to as the Hebrew Religion? After all, even Jesus stated that the disciples will sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. He did not say just the former Kingdom of Judah. He clearly referenced Israel as a united nation under Christ's rule with the disciples judging the 12 tribes.

So tell me, Why do we still put all emphasis on Judaism, and none on Israel as a whole. Christian teachers, preachers always refer to Jews, and Jews only as if the whole nation does not exist. Yet to Christ it does, or else He would not reference all 12 tribes. To be Jewish is a location or genetic thing, not a spiritual thing.

My big question is, when did God replace the Hebrew Mosaic Religious order with Judaism? Because Judaism is not the same religion God told Moses to set up. In fact, one thing Jesus did was to tear down the Jewish religion since they bastardized most of Moses commands. What Jesus fulfilled was the Mosaic Laws and Mosaic ceremonies, not the Jewish ones.

Do you have an opinion you would like to share with me on this?