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Romans 13 and revolution: Does St. Paul's Admonition to Submit to Government mean that the Signers of the Declaration of Independence were going against the Word of God?
Christian Post ^ | 01/13/2021 | Wallace B. Henley

Posted on 01/13/2021 7:35:39 AM PST by SeekAndFind

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1 posted on 01/13/2021 7:35:39 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

I can’t say if the Founders were wrong or not. What I do know is that our current Constitution is the law that God has appointed for us to live by.

That Constitution does not grant us freedom of speech, religion, to bear arms, etc. It makes it illegal for the authorities to stop us from exercising those rights.

That makes the authorities the criminals when the abridge them. They are the ones sowing disorder. They are the ones rebelling against the Lord.


2 posted on 01/13/2021 7:39:21 AM PST by JamesP81 (The Democrat Party is a criminal organization.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Jesus said something about giving to Caesar what is Caesar’s and give to God what is God’s.


3 posted on 01/13/2021 7:42:31 AM PST by Slyfox (Not my circus, not my monkeys )
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To: JamesP81

I can say they were wrong and will. There was no Biblical justification for the American Revolution. Full Stop.


4 posted on 01/13/2021 7:48:59 AM PST by delapaz
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To: Slyfox

Rome did not last forever. God’s will?


5 posted on 01/13/2021 7:50:07 AM PST by Harpotoo (Being a socialist is a lot easier than having to WORK like the rest of US:-))
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To: delapaz

RE: There was no Biblical justification for the American Revolution. Full Stop.

Is there then any Biblical Justification for the USA to exist as a nation?


6 posted on 01/13/2021 7:51:56 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

An Opposing view:

https://www.wnd.com/2001/04/8841/


7 posted on 01/13/2021 7:53:35 AM PST by old school
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To: SeekAndFind
The American Founding was more Biblically-based than any other founding, ever.

Our Founders were trained in the best moral philosophy based on virtue and human dignity in relation to God.

The premise of this article is irritating.

8 posted on 01/13/2021 7:54:14 AM PST by Slyfox (Not my circus, not my monkeys )
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To: SeekAndFind

Paul continued on:

“For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good.”

Such a government is what we are to subject ourselves to.


9 posted on 01/13/2021 7:57:34 AM PST by Mr Rogers
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To: SeekAndFind

I liked the author’s breakdown of the word “authority”, as opposed to the words for “power”. It is significant. In the movie “Doctor Zhivago”, the good doctor was abruptly taken from his hospital work by a local soviet deputy to investigate an illness in a communal house. Zhivago said “You had no right whatsoever to take me from my work”. The deputy asserted, “As soviet deputy...” Zhivago cut him off: “That gives you the power, not the right.” Profound, I though.

Jehoiada the priest and the captains of the guard took down the usurper queen Athaliah, and it was a godly act.

The Maccabees fought against and took down Greek tyranny and it was a godly act.

So the key here is the illegitimacy of tyranny (as opposed to legitimate governance, which is peaceable and godly, and we’re to pray for that).

In Romans 2 (I know, it is speaking about the Law of Moses, but the principle is similar if not the same) it says “When they who are without the law do what is contained in the law, they become a law unto themselves”. I think that is at least partially germane.

Peter, James and John were adamant that they were to obey God rather than man. So that principle is also afoot.

And nowhere is that principle more elegantly stated than in said Declaration.


10 posted on 01/13/2021 8:05:58 AM PST by Migraine ( Liberalism is great (until it happens to YOU).)
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To: SeekAndFind

If the Founders were wrong, then why did God smite the British with all of Nature’s fury when the bastards tried burning Washington DC to ashes during their revenge in the War of 1812?

Such Divine Intervention is considered a huge contributor as to why the city was spared from absolute ruin from British hands.


11 posted on 01/13/2021 8:55:51 AM PST by Prole
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To: SeekAndFind

Good reminder about godly leadership. Thanks for sharing this! Praying. Soli Deo Gloria!


12 posted on 01/13/2021 9:21:46 AM PST by italyconservative ("He must increase, I must decrease: John 3:30)
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To: SeekAndFind
Power and might can only function properly when under proper authority.

There is no human authority that is perfect. The author appears to provide an excuse to disobeying authority anytime we can find fault with it.

13 posted on 01/13/2021 9:42:58 AM PST by aimhigh (THIS is His commandment . . . . 1 John 3:23)
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To: delapaz

“I can say they were wrong and will. There was no Biblical justification for the American Revolution. Full Stop.”

They may have been, however, the past cannot be undone.

We have a nation now that is existing under a set of law God either appointed or permitted to rule us. That law is the Constitution. That same law makes it illegal for the authorities to abridge freedom of speech, worship, etc.

So regardless of the circumstances of the founding today, right now, the authorities are the criminals when they abridge those rights. They are the ones disobeying God.


14 posted on 01/13/2021 9:53:16 AM PST by JamesP81 (The Democrat Party is a criminal organization.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The Founders were not rebelling against lawful authority, they were resisting aggression by a tyrannical power.


15 posted on 01/13/2021 11:43:23 AM PST by attiladhun2
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To: JamesP81

I agree with that, once a government is established, by right of conquest, orderly process or revolution, they become earthly authorities and are instituted as governments among men (Romans 13) who rule by God’s authority.


16 posted on 01/13/2021 12:22:45 PM PST by delapaz
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To: SeekAndFind

the governing authority will prosper if they follow God, but will fall into ruin if they forget God’s law, recall the fate of Herod (Acts 12).


17 posted on 01/13/2021 12:26:21 PM PST by delapaz
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To: delapaz

Caesar was much more tyrannical than George III ever thought of being and Jesus, Paul and the Apostles never called for revolution, to the contrary they said give to Caesar what is Caesars. They only opposed Caesar where it was in direct conflict with God’s command.


18 posted on 01/13/2021 12:28:06 PM PST by delapaz
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To: delapaz
One principle that the Founding Fathers were familiar with was the theory of the lesser magistrate. The background is that the governments of the 13 colonies declared resistance to the infringements on liberties that the British Crown wanted to impose. The colonial militias were not an armed rabble like the so called militia groups of today. They were organized at the local level by county or town authorities and governed by the colonial governments. The Declaration of Independence was signed by representatives of the 13 colonies who were duly appointed to the Continental Congress by the provincial legislatures. Those legislatures and their governors were the lesser magistrates who saw their duty as protecting the rights of Englishmen that the Crown sought to abrogate.

The War for Independence was not contrary to Romans 13, as the soldiers were obedient to the commands of the provincial/state authorities that were duly constituted.

19 posted on 01/13/2021 12:42:02 PM PST by Wallace T.
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To: SeekAndFind

“RE: There was no Biblical justification for the American Revolution. Full Stop.”

How about morality, freedom, truth, justice, equity, civility?

Biblically, there is a “time for war”. See Ecclesiastes 3:8.

Anyone can assert authority over anyone else. Do we have to accept all such assertions?

Your assumption is ridiculous. It is the lack of clarity of thought, such as what you posted, that leads free people to forfeit their freedom.


20 posted on 01/13/2021 1:01:47 PM PST by unlearner (Be ready for war.)
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